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Got a mains cable, don't judge me before you hear what I have to say

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BigH's picture
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RE: Got a mains cable, don't judge me

And I hope you polished all the connections and upgraded the fuses as well.

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RE: Got a mains cable

CnoEvil wrote:

BigH wrote:

I don't really get this, so how come miles of power line to get to your home can be bog standard copper but that last metre from the wall socket to your amp needs to be something special?

Here is one explanation: http://www.monoandstereo.com/2011/03/power-cord-cannot-possibly-have-eff...

Also here: http://www.shunyata.com/Content/products-FAQ.html

If people hear an improvement that's fine by me but those two articles are just nonsense IMO.  My degree in Electronics is rather out of date but I do remember some basic physics and can recognise baloney when I see it.  (RF signals aren't attenuated by cables.  Cables tend to radiate RF signals which attenuates them.  That may seem like a subtle difference but it does demonstrate that people who claim the former don't really understand what they are talking about!)

I don't understand why people who think cables make a significant difference just don't say "We don't know how it works but we think it does" instead of surrounding it with mumbo jumbo!  I am amongst the sceptics but why feed the scepticism like this?

Chris

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RE: Got a mains cable

Covenanter wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

BigH wrote:

I don't really get this, so how come miles of power line to get to your home can be bog standard copper but that last metre from the wall socket to your amp needs to be something special?

Here is one explanation: http://www.monoandstereo.com/2011/03/power-cord-cannot-possibly-have-eff...

Also here: http://www.shunyata.com/Content/products-FAQ.html

If people hear an improvement that's fine by me but those two articles are just nonsense IMO.  My degree in Electronics is rather out of date but I do remember some basic physics and can recognise baloney when I see it.  (RF signals aren't attenuated by cables.  Cables tend to radiate RF signals which attenuates them.  That may seem like a subtle difference but it does demonstrate that people who claim the former don't really understand what they are talking about!)

I don't understand why people who think cables make a significant difference just don't say "We don't know how it works but we think it does" instead of surrounding it with mumbo jumbo!  I am amongst the sceptics but why feed the scepticism like this?

Chris

So a cable that carries 240V at less than 13A with a frequency of 50 Hz  makes such a difference to a very exspensive amplifier? Oh, and if you put an 'upgraded' fuse in the plug it makes it even better? Brilliant.

Must send those physics books back.

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RE: Got a mains cable, don't judge me

CnoEvil wrote:

Sospri wrote:

BigH wrote:

I don't really get this, so how come miles of power line to get to your home can be bog standard copper but that last metre from the wall socket to your amp needs to be something special?

Not only that but before it enters  your amp it travels through a tiny piece of wire restriction called a fuse, so surely negates  any benefit that goes before...... 

That's why upgrading the fuse also helps!  twisted

Upgrading the fuse or not, its still a fuse and thereby a restriction  banging head against wall .................

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RE: Got a mains cable,

Just had a read of the articles you posted and http://www.monoandstereo.com/2011/03/power-cord-cannot-possibly-have-eff explained everything correctly; however what they explained has no relevance to an amplifier power cable.

 

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/products-FAQ.html seems logical but the later part of the explanation proves they have no understanding of how electricity works.

The part where they say AC power and audio signals are different is totally nonsensical, as they are all AC signals, but at different frequency’s. (Hence you can get 50/60Hz interference if you put a power cable next to a low level audio cable)

 

The power supply that comes into you domestic premises is anything but constant, due to interference from other parts of the network and vagaries in the power station, thus poorly or cheaply designed power supplies in equipment affect the equipment’s performance.

 

The only way to solve these power problems is not by exotic mains cables (Which have a very limited and unpredictable effect on the power going in to your equipment) but by using a high quality fully stabilized power supply to feed your equipment. (As used in all premises where the equipment has to have a reliable power source)

 

Bill

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RE: Got a mains cable, don't judge me

Sospri wrote:

Upgrading the fuse or not, its still a fuse and thereby a restriction  banging head against wall .................

....less of a restriction though.  shifty

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RE: Got a mains cable, don't judge me

CnoEvil wrote:

Sospri wrote:

Upgrading the fuse or not, its still a fuse and thereby a restriction  banging head against wall .................

....less of a restriction though.  shifty

You are the weakest link, just like the fuse  excellent!

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RE: Got a mains cable, don't judge me

Sospri wrote:

You are the weakest link, just like the fuse  excellent!

Agreed!  doh!

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RE: Got a mains cable.

CnoEvil wrote:

Which cable did you get?

The research Shunyata has done, suggests that it is to do with handling the sudden high peaks of power better: http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html

Thanks for the link Cno, I'm using Chosial reference series. http://www.chosealcable.com/choseal-pb-5702-od15mm-18m-audiophile-hifi-occ-power-cable-p-156.html 

I'm sure you have some experience regarding mains cables...what do you use?

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RE: Got a mains cable.

shafesk wrote:

Thanks for the link Cno, I'm using Chosial reference series. http://www.chosealcable.com/choseal-pb-5702-od15mm-18m-audiophile-hifi-occ-power-cable-p-156.html 

I'm sure you have some experience regarding mains cables...what do you use?

Cardas and Clearer Audio.

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RE: Got a mains cable.

I am afraid the two links ealier in the thread describing how cables are supposed to make a difference are complete claptrap, that isn't how a mains supply for an amp works at all.

If you can remember back to your 'o' level physics, mains is an AC waveform, at 50Hz. So every 20mS you get one positive peak, and one negative peak.  What happens between the peaks? Lets say there is a cymbal crash or bass drum hit just at the point that the mains waveform is crossing the zero line and is supplying no power to the amp whatsoever. Where does the power come from to drive the output?

It comes from the storage / smoothing capacitors in the supply.  The point is that the mains only ever supplies the average power used by the amp, all transients and peaks are supplied by the storage caps in the supply.  The average power consumption of an amp is likey to be a few hundred watts at most, and quite honestly any old mains cable will be able to supply that.

So all this talk of improved bass, louder amps, better separation might be real, but if it is, it is nothing to do with the mains cable.

 

 

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RE: Got a mains cable.

andyjm wrote:

I am afraid the two links ealier in the thread describing how cables are supposed to make a difference are complete claptrap, that isn't how a mains supply for an amp works at all.

If you can remember back to your 'o' level physics, mains is an AC waveform, at 50Hz. So every 20mS you get one positive peak, and one negative peak.  What happens between the peaks? Lets say there is a cymbal crash or bass drum hit just at the point that the mains waveform is crossing the zero line and is supplying no power to the amp whatsoever. Where does the power come from to drive the output?

It comes from the storage / smoothing capacitors in the supply.  The point is that the mains only ever supplies the average power used by the amp, all transients and peaks are supplied by the storage caps in the supply.  The average power consumption of an amp is likey to be a few hundred watts at most, and quite honestly any old mains cable will be able to supply that.

So all this talk of improved bass, louder amps, better separation might be real, but if it is, it is nothing to do with the mains cable.

Well I believe there is something going on (over and above placebo / expectation bias).

- The Hi-Fi+ blind test of cables (linked to in another thread) showed there were definite differences....and generally speaking, the better cables sounded more convincing, with the best cable the outright winner.

- Apparently Shunyata have done comparative subjective listening tests over several years, with blind and double blind tests, supporting this.....but they have yet to publish them, though they say they will.  banging head against wall

- There are too many people on here who have witnessed the difference, for it to be easily dismissed.

- I have personally witnessed someone with a science background (saying what you are saying), change their mind when they heard it for themselves. He still can't explain it, but was convinced enough to get some decent connections / cable, and make his own.

The debate is pointless as neither side ever convinces the other.............but if you ever get the chance to try it, or go to a demo at a show, why not give it a shot. You can then come on and tell me that I am nuts, for sure.  excellent!

I'm out of this one

Cno

 

 

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RE: Got a mains cable, don't judge me

CnoEvil wrote:

Sospri wrote:

Upgrading the fuse or not, its still a fuse and thereby a restriction  banging head against wall .................

....less of a restriction though.  shifty

A fuse with less restriction = a blown up amplifier! puzzled

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RE: Got a mains cable.

Hopefully, despite a little wobble, this thread will avoid the obvious believer/doubter arguments and get back to the op 'flavour' inviting users actual experiences. I am a kinda mostly doubter but it remains valauble to know of users experiences with particular kit & connects.
Anyone had cables on loan? I'm sure the science will remain unproven and testing subjective. Opinion however is indisputable.
Cheers

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RE: Got a mains cable, don't judge me

bigboss wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

Sospri wrote:

Upgrading the fuse or not, its still a fuse and thereby a restriction  banging head against wall .................

....less of a restriction though.  shifty

A fuse with less restriction = a blown up amplifier! puzzled

Surely it must be possible to use a better conductor (silver), of a higher purity, that would still blow when it should.

I haven't tried hifi fuses and I was being a little facetious....doesn't mean they don't help though!  >)

As I said, I don't want to argue.

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