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Going active ... ?

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hoopsontoast's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

fr0g wrote:

hoopsontoast wrote:

Oh yes, there is no doubt the AMDs are good value.

'Sounding good' is another matter.

EVERY speaker is a compromise.

 

Car analogies are not the best but you could get a new Ford Fiesta, it would do everything you could really need from a car, economical, safe, nice to drive, comfortable, spacious and perfectly good in every way, it even looks nice.

When was the last time someone said its the best car they ever had, or the one 'they really want'.

The ADMs are much like this, they do all you need from a speaker, has all the connections, they even look alright but in terms of the pinicle of hifi, they are far from it. They do a job and they do that job in a good way.

But thats it. They are a good compromise if you are after a small speaker that you can plug everything into.

 

Touch unfair there.

Yes, all speakers are a compromise. And in this case, the compromise is the size. But most people want small speakers.

And for small speakers they sound excellent. Add a sub and they become larger speakers essentially.

They aren't as big a compromise as a turntable for instance, which by all modern standards is a pointless retreat into distortion if what you are after is sound quality, or High fidelity. But I can see that they are cool to play with and very hands on, and I have often thought of getting another for the fun factor...but I'd never pretend it was in any way superior.

Yes but the whole point is people are assuming that because a speaker is active, it would automatically sound better.

The same way that people might say Vinyl is always worse than high res downloads, or SET amps are automatically better than a PP amp, or Pre-Power is better than integrated etc etc.

There are no absolutes that I have found that make something automatically better. Yes I have heard and owned some very good small, bookshelf speakers. But I would only recommend then for a suitable application, the same for some massive horns, again its not going to suit everyone.

As an example, I LOVE my Decware Zen, but for 95% of people it would not suit their needs. It only has a watt or two output, measures pretty bad (although acceptable) only two inputs etc etc. I have found it to be the best at doing a specific job but I am not going to recommend it to everyone as most people wont have the same needs as I do.

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Other Bits: Keesonic Kolt | Decware Zen

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John Duncan's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

Alec wrote:

Show me an active speaker which is in a nice wood-effect finish and has  a DAC in (so, a whole system, minus source*, in one box) that is no more expensive than the AVIs (though I don't actually need that last criteria, as, regardless of price, I'm 99.0% sure you can't do it.

If you don't mind having them in black or white, then the KEF X300A and Dynaudio XEO3 both qualify.  And apparently everybody wants black and white now.  Except those who don't.

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davedotco's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

hoopsontoast wrote:

fr0g wrote:

hoopsontoast wrote:

Oh yes, there is no doubt the AMDs are good value.

'Sounding good' is another matter.

EVERY speaker is a compromise.

 

Car analogies are not the best but you could get a new Ford Fiesta, it would do everything you could really need from a car, economical, safe, nice to drive, comfortable, spacious and perfectly good in every way, it even looks nice.

When was the last time someone said its the best car they ever had, or the one 'they really want'.

The ADMs are much like this, they do all you need from a speaker, has all the connections, they even look alright but in terms of the pinicle of hifi, they are far from it. They do a job and they do that job in a good way.

But thats it. They are a good compromise if you are after a small speaker that you can plug everything into.

 

Touch unfair there.

Yes, all speakers are a compromise. And in this case, the compromise is the size. But most people want small speakers.

And for small speakers they sound excellent. Add a sub and they become larger speakers essentially.

They aren't as big a compromise as a turntable for instance, which by all modern standards is a pointless retreat into distortion if what you are after is sound quality, or High fidelity. But I can see that they are cool to play with and very hands on, and I have often thought of getting another for the fun factor...but I'd never pretend it was in any way superior.

Yes but the whole point is people are assuming that because a speaker is active, it would automatically sound better.

The same way that people might say Vinyl is always worse than high res downloads, or SET amps are automatically better than a PP amp, or Pre-Power is better than integrated etc etc.

There are no absolutes that I have found that make something automatically better. Yes I have heard and owned some very good small, bookshelf speakers. But I would only recommend then for a suitable application, the same for some massive horns, again its not going to suit everyone.

As an example, I LOVE my Decware Zen, but for 95% of people it would not suit their needs. It only has a watt or two output, measures pretty bad (although acceptable) only two inputs etc etc. I have found it to be the best at doing a specific job but I am not going to recommend it to everyone as most people wont have the same needs as I do.

I love lunatic amp/speaker combinations, have you written about your amp/speaker combo in any detail anywhere?

Seriously, would like to see what you have done..... woohoo!

__________________

We do so many shows in a row,

And these towns all look the same,

We just pass the time in our hotel room

And wander 'round backstage,

Till the lights come up, and we hear that crowd,

And we remember why we came.

Jackson Browne

Alec's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

John Duncan wrote:

Alec wrote:

Show me an active speaker which is in a nice wood-effect finish and has  a DAC in (so, a whole system, minus source*, in one box) that is no more expensive than the AVIs (though I don't actually need that last criteria, as, regardless of price, I'm 99.0% sure you can't do it.

If you don't mind having them in black or white, then the KEF X300A and Dynaudio XEO3 both qualify.  And apparently everybody wants black and white now.  Except those who don't.

I definitely don't. and this is the thing. Though I have considered, now and then, looking for the least awful looking set of black actives with DAC, but I don't do piano black.

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Formerly known as al7478...

HC: Panasonic PXP 42 V20; Panasonic DMP BD35; Humax Foxsat-HDR

Music: Optical out from Asus P7H55-M Motherboard into AVI ADM 9.1 speakers.

"Music will provide the light you cannot resist"

hoopsontoast's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

There is a more recent thread here in the 'My System' section, or a full one over on hifiwigwam: "hoops, cheese or beans"

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Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 1858
RE: Going active ... ?

I think hoopsontoast has hit the nail on the head, there's no guarantee that active speakers will automatically sound better than passive, in fact the majority may not sound better at all. It is also true that the proper HiFi actives are expensive - ATC, Linn, PMC etc - and are heavily under represented on this forum

Unfortunately AVI have a disproportionately high representation, which skews any active speaker thread. This isn't helped by the owner of their home forum constantly espousing  the notion that all actives are automatically better than passives. While that man is known for questionable tactics, some AVI forum members seem to adopt similar tactics whether knowingly or not. In the time before all records of me were wiped from the AVI forum, there were discussions in the private area about the best way to push AVI on Whathifi, which stuck in my throat, that and some rude comments about prominent contributors here.

I have no doubt AVI make decent lifestyle speakers, but they have the same limitations any small box has. Realistically, to achieve a high level of performance you are looking at the ATC or PMC type speaker, and the price you pay is high.

There is good news, though. My mates in Stuttgart sent me some stuff about some new German actives which are from an established company, are inexpensive, look good, are entirely made in Germany and, apparently, sound stunning. I'll report back when I get some more info.

 

 

 

 the reverse is true on other forums.

hoopsontoast's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

altruistic.lemon wrote:

I think hoopsontoast has hit the nail on the head, there's no guarantee that active speakers will automatically sound better than passive, in fact the majority may not sound better at all. It is also true that the proper HiFi actives are expensive - ATC, Linn, PMC etc - and are heavily under represented on this forum

Unfortunately AVI have a disproportionately high representation, which skews any active speaker thread. This isn't helped by the owner of their home forum constantly espousing  the notion that all actives are automatically better than passives. While that man is known for questionable tactics, some AVI forum members seem to adopt similar tactics whether knowingly or not. In the time before all records of me were wiped from the AVI forum, there were discussions in the private area about the best way to push AVI on Whathifi, which stuck in my throat, that and some rude comments about prominent contributors here.

I have no doubt AVI make decent lifestyle speakers, but they have the same limitations any small box has. Realistically, to achieve a high level of performance you are looking at the ATC or PMC type speaker, and the price you pay is high.

There is good news, though. My mates in Stuttgart sent me some stuff about some new German actives which are from an established company, are inexpensive, look good, are entirely made in Germany and, apparently, sound stunning. I'll report back when I get some more info.

 the reverse is true on other forums.

ESI speakers? Only briefly heard them (5" and 8" models) but they look VERY good value, not keen on the gloss black shame on you

http://www.puritenorth.co.uk/ESi.htm

 

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Other Bits: Keesonic Kolt | Decware Zen

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Alec's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

altruistic.lemon wrote:
proper HiFi actives

How are these defined?

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Formerly known as al7478...

HC: Panasonic PXP 42 V20; Panasonic DMP BD35; Humax Foxsat-HDR

Music: Optical out from Asus P7H55-M Motherboard into AVI ADM 9.1 speakers.

"Music will provide the light you cannot resist"

davedotco's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

Alec wrote:

altruistic.lemon wrote:
proper HiFi actives

How are these defined?

'Not made by AVI'...... cheer

Actually Al's post is a goody as he actually answers his own objections.

Active hi-fi speakers are expensive, typically 2, 3 or even more times more expensive than ADM9s. Given the nature of this forum where most of the posts are discussing relatively inexpensive systems, it is hardly surprising that a complete solution at £1300 (ish) gets a lot more attention than say a pair of ATC 2 way actives at £5k plus.

Inexpensive <£2k prosumer active monitors are often mentioned as alternatives but, in the main ignored, primarily I think because they do not appear regularly in Hi-Fi mags and they can't be found in the local Sevenoaks, Audio T and Richer sounds.

__________________

We do so many shows in a row,

And these towns all look the same,

We just pass the time in our hotel room

And wander 'round backstage,

Till the lights come up, and we hear that crowd,

And we remember why we came.

Jackson Browne

davedotco's picture
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Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 2337
RE: Going active ... ?

hoopsontoast wrote:

altruistic.lemon wrote:

I think hoopsontoast has hit the nail on the head, there's no guarantee that active speakers will automatically sound better than passive, in fact the majority may not sound better at all. It is also true that the proper HiFi actives are expensive - ATC, Linn, PMC etc - and are heavily under represented on this forum

Unfortunately AVI have a disproportionately high representation, which skews any active speaker thread. This isn't helped by the owner of their home forum constantly espousing  the notion that all actives are automatically better than passives. While that man is known for questionable tactics, some AVI forum members seem to adopt similar tactics whether knowingly or not. In the time before all records of me were wiped from the AVI forum, there were discussions in the private area about the best way to push AVI on Whathifi, which stuck in my throat, that and some rude comments about prominent contributors here.

I have no doubt AVI make decent lifestyle speakers, but they have the same limitations any small box has. Realistically, to achieve a high level of performance you are looking at the ATC or PMC type speaker, and the price you pay is high.

There is good news, though. My mates in Stuttgart sent me some stuff about some new German actives which are from an established company, are inexpensive, look good, are entirely made in Germany and, apparently, sound stunning. I'll report back when I get some more info.

 the reverse is true on other forums.

ESI speakers? Only briefly heard them (5" and 8" models) but they look VERY good value, not keen on the gloss black shame on you

http://www.puritenorth.co.uk/ESi.htm

 

Nice looking speakers, prices look attractive until you realise that you can ship them out of Thomann in Germanny for just £250 or £330 pair, including shipping....... typing away

Still, if you want to audition and have local dealer support then it may be ok paying the premium.

__________________

We do so many shows in a row,

And these towns all look the same,

We just pass the time in our hotel room

And wander 'round backstage,

Till the lights come up, and we hear that crowd,

And we remember why we came.

Jackson Browne

hoopsontoast's picture
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Posts: 854
RE: Going active ... ?

Afriad thats what you pay for if you want propper UK support and demo facilities.

 

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Other Bits: Keesonic Kolt | Decware Zen

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John Duncan's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

altruistic.lemon wrote:

In the time before all records of me were wiped from the AVI forum, there were discussions in the private area about the best way to push AVI on Whathifi, which stuck in my throat, that and some rude comments about prominent contributors here.

No!

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davedotco's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

hoopsontoast wrote:

Afriad thats what you pay for if you want propper UK support and demo facilities.

Agreed and I said as much. The markup is not unreasonable for a German brand, even one made in China.

However it does compare poorly with other German brands such as Adam or Presonus whose UK pricing is much closer to their pricing in their home market. However Adam and Presonus are, mostly, sold through music shop/pro-retailer style dealers, this appears to make a difference.

__________________

We do so many shows in a row,

And these towns all look the same,

We just pass the time in our hotel room

And wander 'round backstage,

Till the lights come up, and we hear that crowd,

And we remember why we came.

Jackson Browne

spiny norman's picture
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Posts: 744
RE: Going active ... ?

altruistic.lemon wrote:
In the time before all records of me were wiped from the AVI forum, there were discussions in the private area about the best way to push AVI on Whathifi

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John Duncan's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

Though that's not set in stone, obviously...

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