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Going active ... ?

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Craig M.'s picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

fr0g wrote:

and being downward firing isn't at risk from my 3 yr old...

Interesting.  I'm going to try my cousins AVI sub with mine some day, but if I bought one I'd be concerned about damage to it for just that reason.

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davedotco's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

jonathanRD wrote:

fr0g wrote:

jonathanRD wrote:

I've been looking at the AVI website today.

I think I've been lucky over the years that my local dealer always seemed to give good advice that meant my budget gear turned out rather good. 

I thought I needed floorstanders affer a new extension on the house gave me a 4m wide by 5m long room to play in. But after getting the BKXXLS400 sub woofer and hooking it up with my old Mission 780's, I starting to consider whether to look at £800 - £1000 stand mount speakers instead (supported by the BK sub).

There is nothing wrong with my current gear, so if I am going to spend some cash, I want to move up from budget gear. So to replace my 15+ years speakers and 14 year old amp (each about £350 back in the day) I think I should be spending circa £750 for an amp and slightly more for speakers. Thats potentially about £1500 to £2000.

But, there's lots of views, reviews etc on system matching and countless options, I could be demoeing for months.

Just wondering whether £1250  (for the new ADM9RS) represents another good option (I assume I can connect my BK amp).

I haven't got the cash together yet but I am certainly thinking about it. 

 

Assuming you mean BK (sub). I have the same one, and I use it with the ADM9T. It integrates perfectly. I am told (by he who must not be named) that it is EDITED in comparison with their own. Possibly, but I like the 400 and it costs half as much, is more powerful and goes deeper. And in my opinion doesn't look as pug ugly as the dedicated one, and being downward firing isn't at risk from my 3 yr old...

 

So, yes, the ADM9RS would work perfectly with your sub.

And yes, they are great value.

Yes sorry I meant BK sub.- cheers Frog all very interesting.

Agree re the looks of the BK downward firing sub - my son was home from college over the summer and had a party for his friends - I had to remind him to make sure no-one mistook the sub for a coffee table or seat!

Why?

The BK XLS400DF works perfectly well as both...... Wink

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fr0g's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

davedotco wrote:

jonathanRD wrote:

fr0g wrote:

jonathanRD wrote:

I've been looking at the AVI website today.

I think I've been lucky over the years that my local dealer always seemed to give good advice that meant my budget gear turned out rather good. 

I thought I needed floorstanders affer a new extension on the house gave me a 4m wide by 5m long room to play in. But after getting the BKXXLS400 sub woofer and hooking it up with my old Mission 780's, I starting to consider whether to look at £800 - £1000 stand mount speakers instead (supported by the BK sub).

There is nothing wrong with my current gear, so if I am going to spend some cash, I want to move up from budget gear. So to replace my 15+ years speakers and 14 year old amp (each about £350 back in the day) I think I should be spending circa £750 for an amp and slightly more for speakers. Thats potentially about £1500 to £2000.

But, there's lots of views, reviews etc on system matching and countless options, I could be demoeing for months.

Just wondering whether £1250  (for the new ADM9RS) represents another good option (I assume I can connect my BK amp).

I haven't got the cash together yet but I am certainly thinking about it. 

 

Assuming you mean BK (sub). I have the same one, and I use it with the ADM9T. It integrates perfectly. I am told (by he who must not be named) that it is EDITED in comparison with their own. Possibly, but I like the 400 and it costs half as much, is more powerful and goes deeper. And in my opinion doesn't look as pug ugly as the dedicated one, and being downward firing isn't at risk from my 3 yr old...

 

So, yes, the ADM9RS would work perfectly with your sub.

And yes, they are great value.

Yes sorry I meant BK sub.- cheers Frog all very interesting.

Agree re the looks of the BK downward firing sub - my son was home from college over the summer and had a party for his friends - I had to remind him to make sure no-one mistook the sub for a coffee table or seat!

Why?

The BK XLS400DF works perfectly well as both...... Wink

 

I have even used it to change a lightbulb! Smile (as a step)

 

The BK is a great sub for the price. And as unassuming as a big black box can be! Smile

I imagine if they dealt through the normal dealership means it would be at least double the price.

 

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method man's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

i went for the avi adm 9.1s about 4 years ago . fed by a quezzebox duet.

the only 'tweak' has been as technology has moved on its now controlled by a lovely tablet using software that cost 3 dollars.

so my system has actually improved. i didnt even have to pay for the ipad as its my wifes old work one.

lindsayt's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

I don't think they're good value for money at £1300. The amps are cheap. The DAC's cheap. The crossovers are cheap. The cabinets are cheap. The drivers are cheap and you only get 2 small ones per channel. And they don't sound good compared to other DAC / amps / speaker combinations you can buy for less money. And they sound the same as the same speakers bought 2nd hand for £600.

Craig M.'s picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

lindsayt wrote:

I don't think they're good value for money at £1300. The amps are cheap. The DAC's cheap. The crossovers are cheap. The cabinets are cheap. The drivers are cheap and you only get 2 small ones per channel. And they don't sound good compared to other DAC / amps / speaker combinations you can buy for less money. And they sound the same as the same speakers bought 2nd hand for £600.

Compared to what you could walk into a shop and buy new for £1250, they are great value, no, scratch that, they are amazing value.  I doubt very much if you can buy the same speakers 2nd hand full stop, the version with these drivers in has been available for about a month.

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fr0g's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

lindsayt wrote:

I don't think they're good value for money at £1300. The amps are cheap. The DAC's cheap. The crossovers are cheap. The cabinets are cheap. The drivers are cheap and you only get 2 small ones per channel. And they don't sound good compared to other DAC / amps / speaker combinations you can buy for less money. And they sound the same as the same speakers bought 2nd hand for £600.

I'm sorry, but that is simply "edited."

I am no friend to the company, the "sales pitch" is full of more edited for the most part, but the sound is very very good for the price. And considering they use high quality drivers and high quality amps, and are very well finished, then of course they are good value. I see ATC have some new standmounts at almost the same price...no amp, no DAC. How would you rate their value?? 

And comparing anything to something second hand marks you down as lacking in common sense...You "can" buy them second hand you know! 

So what standmount speakers, amp and DAC would you recommend against them, that would sound as good, for similar money?

 

And no, not everyone can afford to move house to put monstrous eyesores in the living room.

 

 

 

 

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Ajani's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

the record spot wrote:

spiny norman wrote:

John Duncan wrote:
So six versions then. And six years (the 9 was introduced in 2007).

That's nothing – some companies launch a new model, blitz every forum they can find promoting it as the best thing ever, flog it to a bunch of mug punters, then suddenly and unnacountably discontinue it seemingly within months, just to start shouting all over again about their next genius product.

 

In fairness to AVI, this is no more or less than many other Audio/Visual companies.  Did Sony (or Panasonic, LG, Samsung, etc, etc) really need another lineup of Blu-ray players each year?  Does Marantz need to bring out a new integrated amp every 18 months or so?  I don't see anything different - beyond the route to market - that AVI do from the competition.  

 

That's not really a fair comparison. AV companies generally update models annually. HiFi brands general refresh once every four or five years. 

 

So AVI refreshing essentially once per annum is extreme for HiFi. 

 

Personally, I have no issue with HiFi brands refreshing as often as they like. However, the criticisms I've seen for brands that refresh often; is that "it hurts resale values". Which is a fair point: Why the heck would I pay top dollar for an ADM9.0, if I could get a 9.1, 9.1T, 9R, 9RS, 9XXX or whatever for similar money? 

 

Of course, resale values are only of concern if you want/need to sell.

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lindsayt's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

fr0g wrote:

lindsayt wrote:

I don't think they're good value for money at £1300. The amps are cheap. The DAC's cheap. The crossovers are cheap. The cabinets are cheap. The drivers are cheap and you only get 2 small ones per channel. And they don't sound good compared to other DAC / amps / speaker combinations you can buy for less money. And they sound the same as the same speakers bought 2nd hand for £600.

I'm sorry, but that is simply "edited."

I am no friend to the company, the "sales pitch" is full of more edited for the most part, but the sound is very very good for the price. And considering they use high quality drivers and high quality amps, and are very well finished, then of course they are good value. I see ATC have some new standmounts at almost the same price...no amp, no DAC. How would you rate their value?? 

And comparing anything to something second hand marks you down as lacking in common sense...You "can" buy them second hand you know! 

So what standmount speakers, amp and DAC would you recommend against them, that would sound as good, for similar money?

 

And no, not everyone can afford to move house to put monstrous eyesores in the living room.

 

For you to ignore the 2nd market when it comes to talking about value for money displays a lack of logic or knowledge. Value for money is all about what you can get for what money. What you can get in terms of the manufacturing and material costs for what money. What you can get in terms of the utility for what money. What you can get in terms of fitness for purpose for the money. In hi-fi that means what you can get in terms of sound quality for the money. Unless of course your main purpose in buying hi-fi is in something that is nice to look at. My main purpose in buying hi-fi is in having something that is magical to listen to. If you see hi-fi as living room sculptures, as living room art, then there's no way that we will ever agree on value for money because appreciation of art is such a subjective area and why some people would pay millions for a Picasso, whilst I wouldn't pay anything for one, except as an investment opportunity to sell it on as soon as possible. Whereas a Canaletto, I would pay good money to have in my house. But that's just my taste in art which may well be different to anyone else's.

 

Just because there are other hi-fi products that offer worse value for money than the AVI's, doesn't mean to say that the AVI's offer good value for money. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

 

You seem to be disagreeing with yourself when yhou say "And comparing anything to something second hand marks you down as lacking in common sense...You "can" buy them second hand you know! " If you can buy them 2nd hand for half the price of them new then that does make new versions bad value for money. The 2nd hand ones will look the same and sound the same. They will both have an equally good chance of lasting for the next 10 years. Surely it's lacking in common sense to spend more on something than you have to?

 

What sounds better for less money, and offers better value for money in terms of manufacturing costs for the money? Loads of combinations.

 

For DAC's a 2nd hand Beresford, or Behringer, or other brand DAC. Sound differences between DACs are minimal. So DAC choice is no big deal.

Amp: Sony ES 770 model, or some other battleship Japanese amp or one of the JBL 62xx amps.

Speakers: Yamaha NS1000 or NS1000M. These are not monstrous eyesores. They do have Berylium midrange units and tweeters and lightweight 12" bass drivers. Klipsch Cornwalls 2nd hand. These are not monstrous speakers and they will go right in the corner or up against the wall. Various Royd models. Epos ES14's. But thinking about it, why did you bring "monstrous eyesores" into this debate? What have looks and size got to do with value for money? Nothing. If something's much bigger and looks less good to you that doesn't make it worse value. It just makes it big and ugly in your eyes. We can move the debate onto looks and size if you want, but that's a completely different topic to value for money. So, other good value for money speakers include scruffy pairs of Altec Model 19's, EV Sentry III's, Quad ESL's and mint condition Bozak Symphonys - all of which for a few hundred quid offer better sound quality than the AVI's and better value for money in terms of the manufacturing and material costs.

 

I just get tired of posters on this forum pretending that AVI speakers are something that they are not. At £1300 they are not good value for money.

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RE: Going active ... ?

Craig M. wrote:

lindsayt wrote:

I don't think they're good value for money at £1300. The amps are cheap. The DAC's cheap. The crossovers are cheap. The cabinets are cheap. The drivers are cheap and you only get 2 small ones per channel. And they don't sound good compared to other DAC / amps / speaker combinations you can buy for less money. And they sound the same as the same speakers bought 2nd hand for £600.

Compared to what you could walk into a shop and buy new for £1250, they are great value, no, scratch that, they are amazing value.  I doubt very much if you can buy the same speakers 2nd hand full stop, the version with these drivers in has been available for about a month.

When it comes to buying speakers with exactly the same specification 2nd hand, as Alec Guiness once said "patience my padawan, patience".

bluedroog's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

I've always had the impression AVI use pretty good drivers but some of the other conponounts look a bit cheap. I thnk they're priced about right.

John Duncan's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

bluedroog wrote:

I've always had the impression AVI use pretty good drivers

And who gave you that impression...?

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drummerman's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

bluedroog wrote:

I've always had the impression AVI use pretty good drivers but some of the other conponounts look a bit cheap. I thnk they're priced about right.

Sorry, you and (especially) lindsayT lost me a little.

What exactly looks/seems 'cheap' in the context of the ADM9's?

Well finished cabinets in a choice of veneers/laquers/? Beefy amps with good size power supply? Up to date DAC's? Solid drivers with good magnet size?

Admittedly, the remote control could be a bit fancier and a volume display would be handy but other than that I can't see much fault. A pair of numerous small standmounts without any of the above cost the same. Some small, low powered amplifiers cost the same.

I really dont know what you (and especially) LindsayT are talking about.

Of course, sound is another issue altogether and if you don't like that (or the company ethos)  then I would not argue with that.

regards

 

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drummerman's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

John Duncan wrote:

bluedroog wrote:

I've always had the impression AVI use pretty good drivers

And who gave you that impression...?

I believe they were/are made by some far eastern company, Bajha or something. They have a history of making good quality drivers for others. Solid cast baskets, decent voice coils and good size magnets seem to be part of that. I dont know about excursion/linearity of their products, I am sure Ashley trumpeted the benefits of these at some stage but whilst they may not be absolute top line, they seem close enough to compete (on looks, I dont know the specifics) with many better known alternatives.

Just to explain, before anyone calls me fanboy, I am not but I have followed the company's products for some time.

Happy Sunday my little lambs x

regards

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Overdose's picture
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RE: Going active ... ?

lindsayt wrote:

fr0g wrote:

lindsayt wrote:

I don't think they're good value for money at £1300. The amps are cheap. The DAC's cheap. The crossovers are cheap. The cabinets are cheap. The drivers are cheap and you only get 2 small ones per channel. And they don't sound good compared to other DAC / amps / speaker combinations you can buy for less money. And they sound the same as the same speakers bought 2nd hand for £600.

I'm sorry, but that is simply "edited."

I am no friend to the company, the "sales pitch" is full of more edited for the most part, but the sound is very very good for the price. And considering they use high quality drivers and high quality amps, and are very well finished, then of course they are good value. I see ATC have some new standmounts at almost the same price...no amp, no DAC. How would you rate their value?? 

And comparing anything to something second hand marks you down as lacking in common sense...You "can" buy them second hand you know! 

So what standmount speakers, amp and DAC would you recommend against them, that would sound as good, for similar money?

 

And no, not everyone can afford to move house to put monstrous eyesores in the living room.

 

For you to ignore the 2nd market when it comes to talking about value for money displays a lack of logic or knowledge. Value for money is all about what you can get for what money. What you can get in terms of the manufacturing and material costs for what money. What you can get in terms of the utility for what money. What you can get in terms of fitness for purpose for the money. In hi-fi that means what you can get in terms of sound quality for the money. Unless of course your main purpose in buying hi-fi is in something that is nice to look at. My main purpose in buying hi-fi is in having something that is magical to listen to. If you see hi-fi as living room sculptures, as living room art, then there's no way that we will ever agree on value for money because appreciation of art is such a subjective area and why some people would pay millions for a Picasso, whilst I wouldn't pay anything for one, except as an investment opportunity to sell it on as soon as possible. Whereas a Canaletto, I would pay good money to have in my house. But that's just my taste in art which may well be different to anyone else's.

 

Just because there are other hi-fi products that offer worse value for money than the AVI's, doesn't mean to say that the AVI's offer good value for money. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

 

You seem to be disagreeing with yourself when yhou say "And comparing anything to something second hand marks you down as lacking in common sense...You "can" buy them second hand you know! " If you can buy them 2nd hand for half the price of them new then that does make new versions bad value for money. The 2nd hand ones will look the same and sound the same. They will both have an equally good chance of lasting for the next 10 years. Surely it's lacking in common sense to spend more on something than you have to?

 

What sounds better for less money, and offers better value for money in terms of manufacturing costs for the money? Loads of combinations.

 

For DAC's a 2nd hand Beresford, or Behringer, or other brand DAC. Sound differences between DACs are minimal. So DAC choice is no big deal.

Amp: Sony ES 770 model, or some other battleship Japanese amp or one of the JBL 62xx amps.

Speakers: Yamaha NS1000 or NS1000M. These are not monstrous eyesores. They do have Berylium midrange units and tweeters and lightweight 12" bass drivers. Klipsch Cornwalls 2nd hand. These are not monstrous speakers and they will go right in the corner or up against the wall. Various Royd models. Epos ES14's. But thinking about it, why did you bring "monstrous eyesores" into this debate? What have looks and size got to do with value for money? Nothing. If something's much bigger and looks less good to you that doesn't make it worse value. It just makes it big and ugly in your eyes. We can move the debate onto looks and size if you want, but that's a completely different topic to value for money. So, other good value for money speakers include scruffy pairs of Altec Model 19's, EV Sentry III's, Quad ESL's and mint condition Bozak Symphonys - all of which for a few hundred quid offer better sound quality than the AVI's and better value for money in terms of the manufacturing and material costs.

 

I just get tired of posters on this forum pretending that AVI speakers are something that they are not. At £1300 they are not good value for money.

I admire your consistency, but I suspect that your preferences, if not unusual, are nigh on unique.

Wink

 

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