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RE: Going active ... ?

John Duncan wrote:

davedotco wrote:

I guess this makes Ash a bit of a fiddler then, you can tell him........ :silenced:

Companies should always strive for continuous improvement.

If they can do so without talking EDITED, even better.

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

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RE: Going active ... ?

davedotco wrote:

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

This is a really tricky area - we sometimes make incremental improvements to ranges and usually keep them quiet, sometimes it's due to availability of parts (where we swap in something new, always a "better" component where possible to avoid any potential issues) or sometimes we just decide that we can improve something for the next batch as a running update, usually based on dealer/distributor feedback or indeed our own listening tests compared to newer projects.

The problem arises when you inform distributors/dealers as a matter of course and for spare parts, word then gets out and the calls begin... "I've heard you've upgraded your *insert model* speakers, do I have the upgrade in mine? If not I'd like the upgrade, how can I arrange this, do you pick up the speakers from me?" etc etc. After dozens of these calls from now irate customers (that were happy to buy the speakers as they originally were) you then regret ever attempting to improve the product in the first place and wonder why you bother. Should just save the upgrade for an "i"/"SE"/"MkII" of said product.

If you announced the upgrade, bumped the retail price up a small percentage and offered a retro-fit service for a set fee it would probably save the hassle, but then you often make more than one change on longer running ranges so it becomes a bit tedious for everyone when you keep announcing these things and you lose credibility for making an "inferior" product in the first place...  :doh:

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RE: Going active ... ?

Excuses, excuses Jim...   Smile

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RE: Going active ... ?

davedotco wrote:

John Duncan wrote:

davedotco wrote:

I guess this makes Ash a bit of a fiddler then, you can tell him........ :silenced:

Companies should always strive for continuous improvement.

If they can do so without talking EDITED, even better.

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

It depends whether any particular company's marketing approach involves claims that new models have more bass when the old ones already had plenty (and music doesn't contain bass anyway), that particular components all sound the same (until they find one that doesn't), that a particular crossover topology booms while theirs doesn't (except their new model which has 'overshoot' to provide more bass - in a good way, of course - and actually it's not crossover which causes this sonic signature but cheap driver technology), that the entire hifi industry has no engineers (except them) and that everybody *else* uses hyperbole and lies to promote their products while they are cut-me-own-throat-honest-as-the-day-is-long-guv.

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RE: Going active ... ?

the record spot wrote:

Excuses, excuses Jim...   Smile

Biggrin

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RE: Going active ... ?

John Duncan wrote:

davedotco wrote:

John Duncan wrote:

davedotco wrote:

I guess this makes Ash a bit of a fiddler then, you can tell him........ :silenced:

Companies should always strive for continuous improvement.

If they can do so without talking EDITED, even better.

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

It depends whether any particular company's marketing approach involves claims that new models have more bass when the old ones already had plenty (and music doesn't contain bass anyway), that particular components all sound the same (until they find one that doesn't), that a particular crossover topology booms while theirs doesn't (except their new model which has 'overshoot' to provide more bass - in a good way, of course - and actually it's not crossover which causes this sonic signature but cheap driver technology), that the entire hifi industry has no engineers (except them) and that everybody *else* uses hyperbole and lies to promote their products while they are cut-me-own-throat-honest-as-the-day-is-long-guv.

Fair play JD, I too don't like hyperbole, no matter where it is coming from but that still leaves a product which seems very, very good value for money as I am at the moment try to figure out.

Each of the amplifiers (there are two, well, actually four, two in each speaker) are substantial creations. The boxes look fine and well made, the drivers are good quality and a digital hub of sorts/pre-amplifier and remote is included for the £1.3k price.

I never questioned the value of the 9's (but often spoke out against the way of marketing the company uses even though I very much liked the co-owner when I met him. He really comes over completely different than just purely 'on paper'.)

Never mind. I make a decision soon. My 8vs2 (cyrus) with the planned PSX-R and matching player and a pair of larger standmounts than my Ushers, I was thinking Quad12L2 or perhaps 21L2 would take the overall system cost past a pair of ADM9RS's with 'future' upgrades such as an additional PSX-R potentially adding.

I've always maintained that the sweet spot at the time was the 8vs2 plus PSX-r. After that it just got to expensive and there are better integrated amplifiers availabe. My cyrus is not the latest generation so that may have changed but as I can't afford the latest 8 version, or a pre-power etc that's what I got.

I'm also hankering after something more simple, more aestethically pleasing if possible though I do like the cyrus build/looks.

In any case I still use my Sony receiver in the main system. Simply superb imo.

We'll see.

regards

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RE: Going active ... ?

They are indeed very good value for money. I would personally go for a pair of DM5s though, which would be more practical for me, provided they sounded good (for which I would not be prepared to just take the manufacturer's word, obviously).

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RE: Going active ... ?

John Duncan wrote:

davedotco wrote:

John Duncan wrote:

davedotco wrote:

I guess this makes Ash a bit of a fiddler then, you can tell him........ :silenced:

Companies should always strive for continuous improvement.

If they can do so without talking EDITED, even better.

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

It depends whether any particular company's marketing approach involves claims that new models have more bass when the old ones already had plenty (and music doesn't contain bass anyway), that particular components all sound the same (until they find one that doesn't), that a particular crossover topology booms while theirs doesn't (except their new model which has 'overshoot' to provide more bass - in a good way, of course - and actually it's not crossover which causes this sonic signature but cheap driver technology), that the entire hifi industry has no engineers (except them) and that everybody *else* uses hyperbole and lies to promote their products while they are cut-me-own-throat-honest-as-the-day-is-long-guv.

I guess that touched a nerve, eh John.

I find laying down in a darkened room with a bit of Joy Division usually helps..... :rockout:

 

To be honest I have done a fair amount of work in hi-fi marketing, so knowing the score I do not take any of it at all seriously. 

Strictly for entertainment purposes only....... Wink

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RE: Going active ... ?

I've been looking at the AVI website today.

I think I've been lucky over the years that my local dealer always seemed to give good advice that meant my budget gear turned out rather good. 

I thought I needed floorstanders affer a new extension on the house gave me a 4m wide by 5m long room to play in. But after getting the BKXXLS400 sub woofer and hooking it up with my old Mission 780's, I starting to consider whether to look at £800 - £1000 stand mount speakers instead (supported by the BK sub).

There is nothing wrong with my current gear, so if I am going to spend some cash, I want to move up from budget gear. So to replace my 15+ years speakers and 14 year old amp (each about £350 back in the day) I think I should be spending circa £750 for an amp and slightly more for speakers. Thats potentially about £1500 to £2000.

But, there's lots of views, reviews etc on system matching and countless options, I could be demoeing for months.

Just wondering whether £1250  (for the new ADM9RS) represents another good option (I assume I can connect my BK amp).

I haven't got the cash together yet but I am certainly thinking about it. 

 

Rega Brio 2000 - Apollo - RS5

Sony BDP S480 Onkyo TX-NR609 Monitor Audio BX2 5.0 BK XXLS400

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RE: Going active ... ?

jonathanRD wrote:

Just wondering whether £1250  (for the new ADM9RS) represents another good option (I assume I can connect my BK amp).

I haven't got the cash together yet but I am certainly thinking about it. 

 

Some owners of the ADMs use alternative subs and with good results, I don't bother as a sub isn't ideal for me for reasons of space and room integration.

You would need to listen to them to see if you think they needed a sub, but a moot point if you already have one. For the money, they're as good as you are likely to get, particularly when you consider what they offer as a package.

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RE: Going active?

As I already have a Rega amp & CDP, and have previously home demoed the Rega RS3's - a starting & obvious option for me is the new Brio R & RS3's - total cost £1276. The ADM 9RS's are £1250. Not ready at the moment, but it is likely that I may demo both options based on my current thinking.

Rega Brio 2000 - Apollo - RS5

Sony BDP S480 Onkyo TX-NR609 Monitor Audio BX2 5.0 BK XXLS400

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RE: Going active ... ?

jonathanRD wrote:

Just wondering whether £1250  (for the new ADM9RS) represents another good option (I assume I can connect my BK amp).

I've always been a fan of the ADMs since my cousin bought a pair and had them delivered to my house.  Well, it would've been rude not to compare them to what I had at the time...  :grin:

The latest RS spec are blinding, just so easy to listen to.

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RE: Going active ... ? RE: Going active ... ?

steve_1979 wrote:

I predict 100+ posts in this thread by Sunday evening...

   I fear another speaker cable marathon..............:wall:  :doh:

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RE: Going active ... ?

jonathanRD wrote:

I've been looking at the AVI website today.

I think I've been lucky over the years that my local dealer always seemed to give good advice that meant my budget gear turned out rather good. 

I thought I needed floorstanders affer a new extension on the house gave me a 4m wide by 5m long room to play in. But after getting the BKXXLS400 sub woofer and hooking it up with my old Mission 780's, I starting to consider whether to look at £800 - £1000 stand mount speakers instead (supported by the BK sub).

There is nothing wrong with my current gear, so if I am going to spend some cash, I want to move up from budget gear. So to replace my 15+ years speakers and 14 year old amp (each about £350 back in the day) I think I should be spending circa £750 for an amp and slightly more for speakers. Thats potentially about £1500 to £2000.

But, there's lots of views, reviews etc on system matching and countless options, I could be demoeing for months.

Just wondering whether £1250  (for the new ADM9RS) represents another good option (I assume I can connect my BK amp).

I haven't got the cash together yet but I am certainly thinking about it. 

 

Assuming you mean BK (sub). I have the same one, and I use it with the ADM9T. It integrates perfectly. I am told (by he who must not be named) that it is shite in comparison with their own. Possibly, but I like the 400 and it costs half as much, is more powerful and goes deeper. And in my opinion doesn't look as pug ugly as the dedicated one, and being downward firing isn't at risk from my 3 yr old...

 

So, yes, the ADM9RS would work perfectly with your sub.

And yes, they are great value.

 

 

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RE: Going active ... ?

fr0g wrote:

jonathanRD wrote:

I've been looking at the AVI website today.

I think I've been lucky over the years that my local dealer always seemed to give good advice that meant my budget gear turned out rather good. 

I thought I needed floorstanders affer a new extension on the house gave me a 4m wide by 5m long room to play in. But after getting the BKXXLS400 sub woofer and hooking it up with my old Mission 780's, I starting to consider whether to look at £800 - £1000 stand mount speakers instead (supported by the BK sub).

There is nothing wrong with my current gear, so if I am going to spend some cash, I want to move up from budget gear. So to replace my 15+ years speakers and 14 year old amp (each about £350 back in the day) I think I should be spending circa £750 for an amp and slightly more for speakers. Thats potentially about £1500 to £2000.

But, there's lots of views, reviews etc on system matching and countless options, I could be demoeing for months.

Just wondering whether £1250  (for the new ADM9RS) represents another good option (I assume I can connect my BK amp).

I haven't got the cash together yet but I am certainly thinking about it. 

 

Assuming you mean BK (sub). I have the same one, and I use it with the ADM9T. It integrates perfectly. I am told (by he who must not be named) that it is shite in comparison with their own. Possibly, but I like the 400 and it costs half as much, is more powerful and goes deeper. And in my opinion doesn't look as pug ugly as the dedicated one, and being downward firing isn't at risk from my 3 yr old...

 

So, yes, the ADM9RS would work perfectly with your sub.

And yes, they are great value.

Yes sorry I meant BK sub.- cheers Frog all very interesting.

Agree re the looks of the BK downward firing sub - my son was home from college over the summer and had a party for his friends - I had to remind him to make sure no-one mistook the sub for a coffee table or seat!

Rega Brio 2000 - Apollo - RS5

Sony BDP S480 Onkyo TX-NR609 Monitor Audio BX2 5.0 BK XXLS400

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