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matthewpiano's picture
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RE: "Geeks"

Kamikaze Bitter wrote:

 Where I get a bit puzzled is when I read posts from people who say their system sound fabulous. But they want to spend to improve it. This is the hallmark of a geek, caught in the spiral of diminishing returns. Just say no. Spend it on some music instead. Go to some concerts. Don't change the interconnects, buy some good quality whisky and have a glass before you listen. Relax, enjoy, live!

This is what I will be doing going forward.  I've made major changes to my system in the last couple of months and I'm now at the stage where I can put music on and enjoy the music without worrying about the equipment.  We've booked quite a few gigs and concerts for the next few months and focusing on buying music instead of hi-fi and it feels great.

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RE: "Geeks"

plastic penguin wrote:

davedotco wrote:

plastic penguin wrote:

I'm a bit geeky, in some respects. Occasionally I'm puzzled, however, why some cling vehemently to paper specs, when the best 'specmeter' is those jug-like things stuck each side of the shell. Ultimately, though, the end product is the litmus test of whether the choices is right or if you've dropped a clanger.

The important point is understanding what the 'paper specs' mean, and whether they are 'real' in the first place and whether they actually tell you anything important. The recent interminable thread on hi-res audio has prompted someone (fr0g) to try a very interesting series of tests and show the results. His methodology has been questioned and explained to a degree that I now consider the case against hi-res playback to be 'demonstrably proved' for real world applications.

Just as 'paper specs' can be missleading, deliberately or otherwise, your ears can be too. I have consistently encouraged anyone with an interest in hi-fi to try an organised blind test, not to prove anything in particular but simply to show how similar seeminly different equipment can sound once the visual cues are removed.

The 'geek' does not ignore what he hears but uses it 'in context', just as he does with 'paper specs'. We may be geeks, but it is not rocket science.

Why is it important to understand 'paper specs'? Those specs are prodeced for an individual item tested, no doubt, in acoustically perfect environment. Once that product lands in your own living room or music box, size of room, decor etc etc. often renders those specs useless.

If you was ask me for a run down of the Leema, apart from wattage and inputs, I couldn't tell you. The reality is that hi-fi/AVs is not an exact science. I don't have a problem with people supergluing 'paper specs' to their wall, and anyone who uses that as the main barometer when purchasing, are running a risk of not getting exactly what they hoped for.

I thought I answered that, because they can be missleading, and are often deliberately produced to be so (peak music power anyone?).

And no, I have never advocated using paper specs as the 'main barometer' for choosing hi-fi and never will. All I am saying is that understanding the specs, particularly those produced by a third party, will help you make informed choices and get  better value for money. We see the results of uninformed choices on this forum practically every day.

It isn't just specs of course, having a basic understanding of how this all works helps immensly, particularly since the concept of going to a decent dealer and allowing him to sort out the system for you is no longer the done thing. Of course people can buy whatever they like an they often do, but this is a hi-fi forum and discussing hi-fi is what we do.

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RE: "Geeks"

Really simple, mate. Geeks never get the pretty girls, so leave the sciency bits to them :) Smile :smile:" width="19" height="19" class="smiley-class smileysProcessed" />

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RE: "Geeks"

altruistic.lemon wrote:

Really simple, mate. Geeks never get the pretty girls ...

Which 1950s American teen movie are you living in?

"We are currently awaiting the loading of our complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins for your comfort, refreshment and hygiene during the journey."

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RE: "Geeks"

chebby wrote:

altruistic.lemon wrote:

Really simple, mate. Geeks never get the pretty girls ...

Which 1950s American teen movie are you living in?

Er, the one that is actually 21st century Australia........ Wink

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RE: "Geeks"

altruistic.lemon wrote:

Really simple, mate. Geeks never get the pretty girls, so leave the sciency bits to them :) Smile :smile:" width="19" height="19" class="smiley-class smileysProcessed" />

Don't you know that it's hip to be square nowadays.  Dirol

Hi-Fi - Yamaha RX-V667 > AVI DM5 > AVI subwoofer

Head-Fi - Epiphany Acoustics EHP-O2Di > Sennheisser HD700

Portable - Sony NWZ-A847 > Westone UM3x

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RE: "Geeks"

I am 100% geek.

And my girlfriend is Swedish, blonde and very pretty.

 

And while I do my geekery, I tend to be listening to my excellent Hi-fi at the same time.

 

 

(There is a big difference btw between a Geek and a Nerd... )

 

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RE: "Geeks"

andyjm wrote:

Geeks or not, it is my belief that general consumer hifi has become so good, that few see the point in messing around trying to get that extra 1% of performance.  This, along with the very high development costs associated with developing modern software based systems, and the cynical 'lets make our money on the accessories' approach of the retailers is leading to the death of the hobby.

You have to look no further than this magazine, readership figures (print) were down another 11% last year, and even taking on-line subscriptions into account circulation was down 4%. It feels like the rate of posting on this forum is down as well (although I could be wrong about that). None of this indicates to me that the hobby is in good health.

I don't really agree on any point you make. First of all there is a massive difference between general consumer hifi and high-end - people who don't care the least about hifi come to my house and their jaw hits the floor. And I have heard systems that put mine to shame. Lower-end hifi in some ways is better than ever - especially with speakers. But in other ways it's worse - a decent receiver in the 70s or 80s didn't have the Class D option, they tended to have to drive larger speakers, and their clients were more likely looking for great sound, not an upgrade from ear buds.

People still spend on music but a lot of their budget is going to products that didn't exist before (or were very uncommong): soundbars, iPod docks, DACs, powered subs, centre channel and surround speakers, etc. Retailers have been forced to adapt - the industry is in transition. There are always people who proclaim the death of industries that are merely changing.

Development costs may be higher for a system with a lot of software v. a system without software - that is merely a truism - but the amount of embedded code has skyrocketed in everything manufactured. A new Ford Mondeo has got over 100 million lines of code in it. The average modern kitchen has more lines of code embedded in the appliances than the average PC. And although this has driven up R&D complexity, the ability to outsource R&D and manufacturing overseas has saved even more money on the other side.

And if WHFSV is only down 11%, and only 4% including online subscriptions, they are doing better than most. The entire publishing industry has turned upside down. Very few magazines have not had a drop, in all industries. Computer magazines have taken it even harder - does that mean that the computer industry is dying? If WHF has managed to make up two thirds of their drop by selling online subscriptions, that's great. Few  mags have been able to sell hardly any online subscriptions, if they even have a model in place.

The 'hobby,' per se, may not be in the best health, but the industry is simply in transition. There are a lot of old men in the 'hobby' but that's who's got the money - you could say the same for sports cars. It does not help that companies from within this world such as AVI have decided to declare war on the entire industry as their marketing strategy - they have declared the entire thing a big fraud and spew misinformation about how all the other companies are basically just screwing everyone, which feeds the worst fears of the doomsayers.

And of course there was always enough fraud in this 'hobby' already that it was vulnerable to the attack. For the true stereo geek, once it crystallised that there could not be a difference in USB or HDMI cables, people started thinking, blimey, maybe the whole amp thing is overblown. And some companies who had seen their amp business decline were only too happy to tell them this. So the industry - and its press - have been thier own worst enemies.

 

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RE: "Geeks"

davedotco wrote:

chebby wrote:

altruistic.lemon wrote:

Really simple, mate. Geeks never get the pretty girls ...

Which 1950s American teen movie are you living in?

Er, the one that is actually 21st century Australia........ Wink

Very Sydney in fact. Remember the Whitlams "I make Hamburgers"?

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RE: "Geeks"

altruistic.lemon wrote:

davedotco wrote:

chebby wrote:

altruistic.lemon wrote:

Really simple, mate. Geeks never get the pretty girls ...

Which 1950s American teen movie are you living in?

Er, the one that is actually 21st century Australia........ Wink

Very Sydney in fact. Remember the Whitlams "I make Hamburgers"?

 

No...... :? Do elaborate.

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RE: "Geeks"

Newtown band.

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RE: "Geeks"

andyjm wrote:

Geeks or not, it is my belief that general consumer hifi has become so good, that few see the point in messing around trying to get that extra 1% of performance.  This, along with the very high development costs associated with developing modern software based systems, and the cynical 'lets make our money on the accessories' approach of the retailers is leading to the death of the hobby.

You have to look no further than this magazine, readership figures (print) were down another 11% last year, and even taking on-line subscriptions into account circulation was down 4%. It feels like the rate of posting on this forum is down as well (although I could be wrong about that). None of this indicates to me that the hobby is in good health.

 

 

I agree.

Mini systems are a good example. In the 80s a £300 mini system was guaranteed to sound awful. Horrible exaggerated bass and closed in sound, usually with a fixed bell wire to the speakers from a nasty plastic case.

£300 buys you a mini system that imo is truly excellent sounding and often includes very nice budget speakers.

Similarly there is almost no difference between a £200 CD player and one at 10x that other than 20 kg.

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RE: "Geeks"

altruistic.lemon wrote:

Newtown band.

Bit after my time, I left Sydney in '88.

We used to see local bands in a pub down towards Bronte/Charing Cross. Bull & Gate? or something. Could get a bit noisy on occasion.

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RE: "Geeks"

Readership numbers of the mag mean very little about HiFi as a hobby. NME has had a considerable drop in readership but music is as popular as ever. The times when I most enjoy listening to music I have no idea how or what is used to play it, and frankly I do not care.

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RE: "Geeks"

SpursGator, you are a tiresome bore. All that ranting simply to take a dig at AVI. Your pathetic attempt to start a topic aimed squarely at AVI failed miserably. Get over it and move on.

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