Ever heard speakers which sound like live music?
I have loved PMC speakers from the first moment I heard them they have similar qualities to Electro amplifiers but it is only since I bought my PMC PB1i's that I can say my system can do an impression of live music and I think it is mainly to do with deep bass that they produce , my old OB1's could not do it even though they are very good speakers .
What other speakers did you try, before deciding on PMC?
Hi Mac ,
It is very hard to point to one thing and the Electrocompaniet amps are a large part of it but not the only reason.
They have total control of any speaker connected to them and the circuit design is unusual and as far as I know unique to Electrocompaniet and Abrahamsen audio , they pay special attention to eliminating timing induced distortions and preserving transients in the music and are the best amps I have ever heard at reproducing complicated and dynamic music , nothing ever seems to catch them out no matter how dense the music gets .
I have loved PMC speakers from the first moment I heard them they have similar qualities to Electro amplifiers but it is only since I bought my PMC PB1i's that I can say my system can do an impression of live music and I think it is mainly to do with deep bass that they produce , my old OB1's could not do it even though they are very good speakers .
So it is a combination of things , put Electrocompaniet and the larger PMC'S together in a good room with a top class source 
and good live recording and the magic happens .
With good studio recordings you are right the separation can be better and a image more 3d but the sound has been created by a studio engineer so it is more polished than live music, but I love the rawness and energy of live music .
If I had to pick the thing that is essential for a HiFi system to produce live sounding music it would be very deep, powerful ,
Textured and controlled bass .
There really is no substitute for a quality live performance and I know what you mean about the base... I went to see Ben Howard last year and the base was thumping in my chest which created that raw emotion you mentioned, that and his fantastic guitar playing.
Personally, I couldn't play my music at those levels to replicate the live effect even if my system was up to it!
I do intend having a home dem of the Electro pre/power some time in the future, as well as a Pathos.
Cheers
Mac
These sound like a concert or band in your living room
http://sanderssoundsystems.com/products/electrostatic-speakers/model-10
These sound like a concert or band in your living room
http://sanderssoundsystems.com/products/electrostatic-speakers/model-10
Definitely agree I listened to a pair Innersound Eros speakers quite a few years ago and they were truly stunning , the dynamic power at high listening levels was almost unbelievable with well recorded music especially classical but at normal listening levels and with average recordings they did not work properly at all, but newer models may have improved .
Never heard the old innersound versions , same guy designed these totally new design from sandersoundsystems.
, digital crossover , transmission line bass , driven by his matching pre amp & a pair of his magtech stereo amps
rated @ 900wpc. Full range electrostatics , flat down to 22hertz with 94bD Efficiency.
1.8kilowatts in total per side , superb at low volumes or
Fulll on rock concert volumes , classical concert or dance club.
I love them , last pair of speakers i will ever buy. just plug in a turntable , Cd or server and you are set !
If these are not loud enough he also makes a 2,000wpc monoblocks to drive them
The Gadget Show set up some modest equipment in a car park. Recording live and playing back they found systems pretty realistic I recall. Not a great objective test and hey, its the GS. But to get any system to sound realistic, I believe, you have to reproduce a similar environment. Also ofcourse, you cant expect most recorded musoc to sound realistic since it ain't. It is heavily processed sound. Maybe those 'realistic' speakers mentioned compensate somewhat for room acoustics? Maybe they were heard in non domestic surroundings? To continue an intriuging thread rather than to disagree with anyones opinions I wonder how these setups recreate realism within a domestic environment.
Cheers. Breakfast becons.
My definition of realism is live un-amplfied music. If you are trying to get a sound like a gig, just get a PA.
Agreed hoops. But what? Acoustic guitar in your lounge? Full orchestra in a concert hall? What source should we use to guage realism? What source of music/recording do we have which is not processed in some way?
I have loved PMC speakers from the first moment I heard them they have similar qualities to Electro amplifiers but it is only since I bought my PMC PB1i's that I can say my system can do an impression of live music and I think it is mainly to do with deep bass that they produce , my old OB1's could not do it even though they are very good speakers .
What other speakers did you try, before deciding on PMC?
When I bought my PMC's original OB1's I tried many difference types an makes of speaker but the ones that were direct competitor for me were Totem Forest , Martin Logan clarity , Audio Physic tempo , Audiovector (can't remember the model ) ATC scm 40 , I am sure there were more that I have forgotten :) , for me the OB1's won easily because they were the best all rounders they reproduced any type of music without favour and best bit was the transmission line bass none of the others came close in this department .
I bought the PB1i's without listening to many others , as soon as I heard them I new they were what I wanted and I have heard nothing that I prefer in that price range since .
Since then I have listen to many different makes and types of speaker and none have persuaded me to stray from PMC
But I have promised myself that I am going to try a pair of these at some point in the future they are an infinite baffle type speaker with bass frequency response down to 28hz to and a cabinet made from cast aluminium an tensioned with rods to 2500N .
http://www.electrocompaniet.no/products/classic/speakers/index.html
I just have to know what they sound like 
I do also have an appreciation of what 'proper' bass sounds (and more properly feels!) like, and no, unless you are using high powered amps and commercial rather than domestic type large speakers I don't believe you can replicate the sound from a loud rock (or whatever style you like - including orchestral) band in your living room
interesting. been to many live unamplified gigs, large orchestral music included and never felt bass. even majestic organ music does not pump bass like dynamic speakers do. IMO it's simply a special side effect of using dynamic speakers and not a natural feature of any (at least most) natural sound sources.
rock music is of course a completely different matter. rock music can't exist without amps and dynamic speakers. both are inseparable. therefore I can appreciate that in order to be given a full sensation of a rock band performing live you need to feel thumping in your chest.
Full range electrostatics , flat down to 22hertz with 94bD Efficiency.
ESL speakers? yeah, that's defo a move forward. but those particular ESLs are not full range. bass is by dynamic driver cut off @ 200Hz. you'll have problems with beaming too with this design. and I'd like to see that 94dB efficiency from an ESL...
Agreed hoops. But what? Acoustic guitar in your lounge? Full orchestra in a concert hall? What source should we use to guage realism? What source of music/recording do we have which is not processed in some way?
IMO a good approximation to experiencing a life-like performance in your room from your hi-fi is when you can't hear the music is actually coming from a pair of speakers but is simply born in space in front of you. a feat that only few speakers can do in your listening room. unless your room is an anechoic chamber. so yes, you've got a point mentioning room acoustics (in your previous post)...
I am going to try a pair of these at some point in the future they are an infinite baffle type speaker with bass frequency response down to 28hz to and a cabinet made from cast aluminium an tensioned with rods to 2500N .
say what?!
IMO a good approximation to experiencing a life-like performance in your room from your hi-fi is when you can't hear the music is actually coming from a pair of speakers but is simply born in space in front of you. a feat that only few speakers can do in your listening room. unless your room is an anechoic chamber. so yes, you've got a point mentioning room acoustics (in your previous post)...
I'm not sure about that, at least the bit about only a few speakers being capable. All of my hifi systems have managed to provide a perfectly good stereo image, right down to the 10 year old Kenwood midi system in my kitchen. Again though, stereo image is largely down to the mix and how the engineer/producer wanted the final sound to be presented. If you can hear separation between the artists/instruments, that's how the track was mixed. No matter how good the speakers, they will not create something that was not already there.
You can only ever compare a speaker to live, if the speaker is heard in the same environment as the live recording or performance, so any other comparison is rather pointless.
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Hi Mac ,
It is very hard to point to one thing and the Electrocompaniet amps are a large part of it but not the only reason.
They have total control of any speaker connected to them and the circuit design is unusual and as far as I know unique to Electrocompaniet and Abrahamsen audio , they pay special attention to eliminating timing induced distortions and preserving transients in the music and are the best amps I have ever heard at reproducing complicated and dynamic music , nothing ever seems to catch them out no matter how dense the music gets .
I have loved PMC speakers from the first moment I heard them they have similar qualities to Electro amplifiers but it is only since I bought my PMC PB1i's that I can say my system can do an impression of live music and I think it is mainly to do with deep bass that they produce , my old OB1's could not do it even though they are very good speakers .
So it is a combination of things , put Electrocompaniet and the larger PMC'S together in a good room with a top class source
and good live recording and the magic happens .
With good studio recordings you are right the separation can be better and a image more 3d but the sound has been created by a studio engineer so it is more polished than live music, but I love the rawness and energy of live music .
If I had to pick the thing that is essential for a HiFi system to produce live sounding music it would be very deep, powerful ,
Textured and controlled bass .
Electrocompaniet EMC1UP Cd player , EC 4.7 pre , AW120 DMB power amp , PMC PB1i speakers . Isotek Titan / Nova , Nordost SPM speaker cable , Kimber KCAG balanced interconnects .
Linn LP12 Lingo , Ittok lv3 , Lyra Lydian , EAR834P .
"Everything should be as simple as possible, but no simpler." Albert Einstein .