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CnoEvil's picture
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RE: Even I have my limits.......

mogsie wrote:

reading all this makes me wonder to what extent the placebo effect could have to play in this ? if somebody genuinly believes it is improving sound quality will they believe they are hearing it ?

In short, very much so, but.....

- Sometimes the difference is imaginary

- Sometimes it's real

- Sometimes different people pick up on subtitles that are missed by others.

- Sometimes, one person's "day and night" is another's, "marginal at best".

- Sometimes people say they hear a difference (or get talked into hearing one) because of peer pressure......I was at a Chord cable demo recently, where they were (among other things) showing the difference made by better shielding and plugs on the same cable. With each upgrade, everyone in the room was nodding wisely at the improvement, due to being prompted by the person doing the dem.

IMO. The improvements were far from easy to hear on a short burst of music, and it was only when they got to mad priced stuff that I could hear a marked difference, but it was only on the Sarum Tuned Aray, that I actually liked what I heard.

Was it the price that made me hear a difference?........possibly, but i don't believe so. My ears haven't yet let me down when selecting the kit that I have, so i have grown to trust them over the years; though I don't expect anyone else to do so, without doing their own trials.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Even I have my limits.......

mogsie wrote:
reading all this makes me wonder to what extent the placebo effect could have to play in this ? if somebody genuinly believes it is improving sound quality will they believe they are hearing it ?

Sometimes yes, they can hear a difference if they believe it. Try playing two identical music files to someone but tell them that one is a lossy MP3 and the other is a high quality lossless file. Many people will think that they can hear a slight difference even though the files are really identical.

 

You may find this thread on the subject an interesting one. Clicky

Hi-Fi        AVI DM5 > AVI Neutron sub

Head-Fi  Epiphany Acoustics EHP-O2Di > Sennheisser HD700

Portable Sony NWZ-A847 > Westone UM3x

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RE: Even I have my limits.......

CnoEvil wrote:
In short, very much so, but.....

- Sometimes the difference is imaginary

- Sometimes it's real

- Sometimes different people pick up on subtitles that are missed by others.

- Sometimes, one person's "day and night" is another's, "marginal at best".

- Sometimes people say they hear a difference (or get talked into hearing one) because of peer pressure

Good points.

 

Hi-Fi        AVI DM5 > AVI Neutron sub

Head-Fi  Epiphany Acoustics EHP-O2Di > Sennheisser HD700

Portable Sony NWZ-A847 > Westone UM3x

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RE: Even I have my limits.......

CnoEvil wrote:

mogsie wrote:

reading all this makes me wonder to what extent the placebo effect could have to play in this ? if somebody genuinly believes it is improving sound quality will they believe they are hearing it ?

In short, very much so, but.....

- Sometimes the difference is imaginary

- Sometimes it's real

- Sometimes different people pick up on subtitles that are missed by others.

- Sometimes, one person's "day and night" is another's, "marginal at best".

- Sometimes people say they hear a difference (or get talked into hearing one) because of peer pressure......I was at a Chord cable demo recently, where they were (among other things) showing the difference made by better shielding and plugs on the same cable. With each upgrade, everyone in the room was nodding wisely at the improvement, due to being prompted by the person doing the dem.

IMO. The improvements were far from easy to hear on a short burst of music, and it was only when they got to mad priced stuff that I could hear a marked difference, but it was only on the Sarum Tuned Aray, that I actually liked what I heard.

Was it the price that made me hear a difference?........possibly, but i don't believe so. My ears haven't yet let me down when selecting the kit that I have, so i have grown to trust them over the years; though I don't expect anyone else to do so, without doing their own trials.

Now you are spoiling a very entertaining thread by being serious...... Wink

I feel that there are two factors at work here, firstly the differences between cables is vanishingly small, if you take into account changes in level and obvious frequency response variations. That said, I would always buy a decent quality, properly constructed lead simply for peace of mind.

This brings me on to the second point, there are things that I believe make a difference that are extremely difficult to prove, even to myself.

For example, I plan to use a Sonos based system next time I buy a 'proper' system, a while ago I heard a (in deeply flawed, sighted dem) a standard Connect against a Cullen/W4S modified version.

At the time I thought the modded version sound 'cleaner' and less 'hazy', clearly superior and this impression has stayed with me. When I buy the system I shall buy the modded version for my main system without a moments thought, once again purely for peace of mind.

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RE: Even I have my limits.......

steve_1979 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:
In short, very much so, but.....

- Sometimes the difference is imaginary

- Sometimes it's real

- Sometimes different people pick up on subtitles that are missed by others.

- Sometimes, one person's "day and night" is another's, "marginal at best".

- Sometimes people say they hear a difference (or get talked into hearing one) because of peer pressure

Good points.

 

 

But what if your wife/girlfriend happened to walk into the room and also heard the difference? 

Surely unequivocal proof.

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RE: Even I have my limits.......

MakkaPakka wrote:

steve_1979 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:
In short, very much so, but.....

- Sometimes the difference is imaginary

- Sometimes it's real

- Sometimes different people pick up on subtitles that are missed by others.

- Sometimes, one person's "day and night" is another's, "marginal at best".

- Sometimes people say they hear a difference (or get talked into hearing one) because of peer pressure

Good points.

 

 

But what if your wife/girlfriend happened to walk into the room and also heard the difference? 

Surely unequivocal proof.

No, she's locked in the man cave.

Hi-Fi        AVI DM5 > AVI Neutron sub

Head-Fi  Epiphany Acoustics EHP-O2Di > Sennheisser HD700

Portable Sony NWZ-A847 > Westone UM3x

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RE: Even I have my limits.......

MakkaPakka wrote:

steve_1979 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:
In short, very much so, but.....

- Sometimes the difference is imaginary

- Sometimes it's real

- Sometimes different people pick up on subtitles that are missed by others.

- Sometimes, one person's "day and night" is another's, "marginal at best".

- Sometimes people say they hear a difference (or get talked into hearing one) because of peer pressure

Good points.

But what if your wife/girlfriend happened to walk into the room and also heard the difference? 

Surely unequivocal proof.

I try to keep Mrs Cno out, especially when I'm up to something, as she always seems to know :shifty: .....it's a gift that the female of the species seems to have, especially if they've been married to you for a quarter of a century.......either that, or it's the measuring tape that gives it away.  :doh:

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

CnoEvil's picture
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RE: Even I have my limits.......

steve_1979 wrote:

No, she's locked in the man cave.

Some chance!......not even Majik Pebbles bought from Linn could achieve that.  >)

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Even I have my limits.......

davedotco wrote:

For example, I plan to use a Sonos based system next time I buy a 'proper' system, a while ago I heard a (in deeply flawed, sighted dem) a standard Connect against a Cullen/W4S modified version.

At the time I thought the modded version sound 'cleaner' and less 'hazy', clearly superior and this impression has stayed with me. When I buy the system I shall buy the modded version for my main system without a moments thought, once again purely for peace of mind.

I agree about the superiority of the modded Sonos boxes. I did an informal blind comparison and came to the same conclusion as you.

That was the Fidelity Audio mod. I now also have I have the W4S version. The former has a superior (outboard) power supply, but is a bit more expensive. Once my Dev is up and running I plan to compare the two modded versions side by side.

The screen door slams, Mary's dress waves ...

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