I think you misunderstand my replies as actually caring about the figures.
Whilst yourself and Oldric seem to have a handle on some facts and figures, it appears to me to come from an enthusiasts perspective, much the same way as a train spotter might relay various minutae regarding technical data and serial numbers about a train, compared with say an actual train engineer/technician who would really know how it worked. You won't find your answers on the interweb, you need to do the actual work.
Apologies if you are, or have been electrical or electronic engineers yourselves, but you just don't come across as anything other than from an amateur DIY level.
If you want to test or verify the speakers, simply buy a second hand pair, test them and move them on. Job done.
The rationale that you pair can't understand how various figures are arrived at, therefore the data is flawed, could easily be seen as a lack of understanding and knowledge yourselves, ie 'if I can't do it, then it must be impossible'.
Once again, I point you to the manufacturers respective technical departments for precise info, but given the way you ask questions, I'd imagine that you'd be given short shrift.
Once again, I've had/have, both the BM5As and the ADM9s and am speaking from direct experience of listening to the two and it is this experience that I am giving to the OP.
Gosh! Have you just come back from patronising school or something??
Seriously, these are fair questions. They may be of no interest to you, but they are for others. I'm pretty sure with those figures you'd overload the drivers quick smart and be faced with expensive repairs.
More concerning is the effect on the OP listening at high volume. You can replace drivers easily, but your ears are something else!
The questions might be fair, but irrelevant. The ADM9s are louder than anyone is likely to need in most home audio setups. In smaller rooms, the same could be said of the BM5As.
This obsession with trying to debunk some claims about the ADM9s is all well and good, but when are any of you detractors actually going to do something about it (such as conduct your own tests) rather than write about it? I might take you a bit more seriously if you actually proved some basic level of competence.
I could cut and paste any old theoretical calculations from a quick bit of googling, it would not neccessarily mean that those calculations were accurate, or that I really knew what I was talking about and once above the knowledge level of the layman, most people wouldn't know either way.
The OP wanted resonable suggestions for loud and more/tight bass. The ADM9s have that in spades, but don't take my word for it, actually try to have a listen.
Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts
Well products sell on perfomance be it a car a amp or gfx card and customers check the spec of products before they buy and if you just look and power amp specs most if not all put the best highest figures and some just lie.
If you were looking to buy a car and got your choice down to 2 but one of them its claimed does 10 mpg more and is 15 mph claimed higher top speed thats the one most will buy so theres a huge incentive to gild the lilly.
Noone would care how much power or how loud ADM have aslong as they sound good and play loud enough but when claims are made of them of being able to play that loud undistorted at 10 metres its only to be expected eyebrows are raised and questions asked.
OD, the Dynaudio figures are also subject to the same scrutiny in this thread, and treated with the same scepticism. I've found the thread useful with some good points raised - never really looked at manufacturer's figures in that way before. That's any speaker manufacturer, by the way, no need to be paranoid.
There is many a hi-fi component/system that I couldn't stand the sound of.
Many people here express dislike for many products (and their manufacturers) on a regular basis. They frequently use words like 'hate' (or worse) and yet, it only ever seems to be an issue when an AVI product is involved.
Why is it that someone can criticise Naim or Arcam or Linn or Panasonic (or whoever) in the strongest terms but, when it comes to AVI, everyone has to tread on eggshells or face a multi-pronged attack from members of the AVI forum?
I have frequently criticised Naim, Arcam (and even Rega) on points as various as their sound to things like their looks or some of the nonsense their manufacturers come out with regarding cable direction or warm up times (for instance).
I have never got 'jumped on' in the way that would - inevitably - happen if I criticised AVI.
I am not about to criticise AVI products on any grounds of sound, build or quality because I have not personally experienced them. Sometimes I have been known to suggest trying them to people as a possible solution. I trust that they are as good as the reviews and their users - here and elsewhere - say they are. I don't have any doubts that they are a high quality product.
But what is so special about AVI, in particular, that they are beyond criticism in a way that other manufacturers aren't?
Chebby, I will have a go at addressing the above from my perspective.
AVI owners, and others, see a question or statement from an OP and where that individual believes that the recommendation or discussion of AVI products is relevant they make their contribution. Other people do the same thing in relation to other products. Some people make no effort to make any suggestions about matters relevant to the OP, they just slag-off AVI.
To take this thread as an example, the OP asked this, "Does anyone have or heard how loud AVI ADM9.1 go?". People who DO actually own them or at least have heard them tell the OP their experience, just like I did. The thread is then taken off down a cul-de-sac of whether there are or are not reliable verifyable measurements of loudness by AVI and other manufacturers, which is not relevant to this OP.
The OP wants to know from people about what they have heard, he will want to listen to them not measure them.
AVI products and AVI itself is not beyond criticism, we hear it all the time from some people. If I were not experienced in the abilities etc of AVI products I would have to ask myself why owners are so passionate about them. Most owners, just like me, have had many many years of alternative products and in our EXPERIENCE AVI is SO significantly better than what we have owned and heard before that we try to let other people in on the secret or answer their questions directly. I have no problem at all with people liking other things, but there is no need to slag stuff off particularly if you haven't ever heard it.
Ben has made a comment about the AVI sub. When I started writing this inadequate piece no-one had jumped on him and won't because he is making a comment based on his experience. No problem with anyone saying they don't like something from AVI when it is an informed opinion not almost hysterical antiness. I could interfere in all sorts of threads slagging off products based on a quick listen or even a demo but all I do is relate my experience from an ongoing ownership perspective. My contribution is to inform people about a less well known way of listening because it was revelatory to me and it might just do someone else a good turn, save them money, make them a little happier. I don't think that is something to be criticised for.
So criticise away if anyone wants to, but make it relevant to the Thread and if possible make it from a position of real knowlege/experience not hatred or deliberate spoiling.
I have read this now and it is a poor and [very] long-winded reply to a very reasonable[and reasonably put] question, but I started and now I have finished.
Apple Lossless - ATV3 - AVI ADM 40 also ATV3 into AVI ADM 9T [my wife's system]
and Grado SR80i
The problem is that when the ADM were launched AVI carpet bombed the internet and many of them doing it were banned but they keep coming back under different names and start it over again.
They are tiny firm 2 men and his dog in a shed with no advertising budget so instead make threads like these 1000s of them.
The constant shills using false names are what turn many customers away from AVI products not the products themselves which sound fine and are good vfm.
AVI sell these speakers on the back of these claims of power and that they can play at 100 db at 10 metres so its reasonable for potential customers to ask for proof of their claims.
AVI site take plenty of digs at rivals products with comments like ok if you like the sound of clipping ect so cant complain when facts and figures are asked for their product.
Would of been a worthy part of the review if WHF had set them up at 10 metres and measured how loud they can go when they reviewed them.
At least once and certainly recently, a member here attested to a measured figure produced at the NEC[I think} with the use of an SPL meter. Now this is nowhere near a lab test or anyhting that approaches that but it is in the archive somewhere. If only magazines tested equipment, as they used to do, we might have a measure of manufacturers claims, but they don't.
At the end of the day most of us purchase hifi to listen to it, not measure it. I know what kit I would rather listen to music on, soft or loud it's AVI ADMs.
That was with the ADMs rated, according to the MD, at 325 wpc, and were over 100db at 10m. Ambient noise was at 83db. There was no info given about whether a meter or a phone app was used. This was twice as loud as any speaker for £1400, again according to the MD, and sounded far better than the £10000 Wilson Benesch on a neighbouring stand.
Now do you see why people are so sceptical about AVI?
The using false names are what turn many customers away from AVI products not the products themselves which sound fine and are good vfm.
Apart from dear old Max, who are these members that are really not genuine enquirers, but mutiple personnas of the AVI henchmen? What evidence do you have for this claim, apart from Max?
The people who give the most publicity to AVI are the AVI detractors.
They pitch in with irrelevant or barely relevant bile that continues the arguments for page after page, post after post. If there was not the reaction there is, most threads would run out of steam quickly. But the same drivel is trotted out by the same people, who often have never owned or even listened to AVI products.
Then people accuse AVI of "constant shills". It is beyond belief.
My recollection is that a 'SPL meter' was used. But it really doesn't matter because the detractors on here wouldn't believe it anyway.
'Put your money' etc and submit a pair of AVI ADM 9RSS speakers to an independant lab and get them tested properly and come back with your results. Then you will be able to give definitive info to the handfull of people that will be interested.
I wait with baited breath but if you don't mind I won't wait, 'holding my breath'.
I've done it for you, with a little help from Dynaudio.
If 100dBs @ 10m is proportional to 117dBs @ 1m, then the BM5Aa can manage that at peak. As I have said, the ADMs provide more headroom than the BM5As, (which I also had) and are louder, but quite how much would need to be tested. Loud enough in most cases though for sure.
Back to back, the ADM9s were obviously louder than the BM5As and stayed composed at those levels as well.
let me help you with your calculations further OD.
if what Dynaudio claims is true, i.e. 117dB peak @ 1m
and if your statement is also close to being accurate, ie 100dB @ 10m equating to 117dB @1m, then there is every likelyhood that that the ADM9s match or exceed this figure. In fact, having heard both back to back in the same room, I know that the ADM9s surpass the Dynaudios in the volume stakes by some margin, calculator not required (hearing protection mandatory though).
When you listen to the pair you will be able to take your own measurements, until then, you will have to rely upon your theoretical knowledge.
Perhaps you might like to ask Dynaudio how they came by their measurements, they might be able to help you better understand.
Looking at the Dynaudio website, it's highly likely that Dynaudio are exagerating their maximum sound pressure levels too.
2 wrongs don't make a right.
I see Lindsayt has beat me to it. but my reply will be in a very similar tone. OD, have you ever experienced 117dB at your eardrums? I don't think you did and that's a good think because you'd suffer some hearing damage (how severe depends on exposure). understand I don't question the fact that your AVIs or Dynaudios sound loud. I question the claim they can output 100dB at 10m.
I'm guessing the Dyns should easily be capable to output something around 100dB in your room, which is already plenty loud! and then Avis might be something like 4 - 5dB louder, which to you will sound like they are hell lotta louder, because that's how our ears work. to give you impression how 100dB sounds like imagine you're passing small roadworks and someone is using a jackhammer 1 - 2m from you. this is 100dB. you might even feel the urge to cover your ears while walking close by. speakers at 100dB will subjectively sound even louder due to much more complex spectral component of music signal and you should count in some 3% THD from your speakers at this volume level, which again makes sound seem louder that when not distorted.
so once again, are you sure you played your speakers at 117dB at 1m? I don't think so. but to dispel any misunderstanding you can always get yourself a free dB meter app to your phone. it'll by no means be a lab grade equipment but should give you rough idea what levels you play your music at.
Giro, InTheGroove, Digit, ClassicOne, MG12
i have prrof of a certaim Mr D doing it he was banned from here then came back posting as a young lad from Milan and he was caught red handed and i saved the posts.
Also a certain guy from Brum was caught red handed posting on a forum talking to himself and forgot to change his false name on the bogus one.
Why dont you go over to AVI site and ask MR D who
santino.b.it is from Milan
I don't really understand this point from you. do you mean there are only a mall group of the chosen ones destined to understand laws of physics governing flow of electrical signals? and that acoustics is some sort of black artistry where only few can grasp it? or maybe that you have to go college to learn it? I really feel sorry for you OD if you find it difficult to understand those laws but please don't question my knowledge and drive to gain that knowledge in pursuit of my personal audio nirvana. there is really nothing too difficult to understand.
ok please go ask MR D who
santino.b.it is seeing as you called me out.
...'Put your money' etc and submit a pair of AVI ADM 9RSS speakers to an independant lab and get them tested properly and come back with your results. Then you will be able to give definitive info to the handfull of people that will be interested.
Won't cost so much that way, and will put this matter to bed to everybody's satisfaction.
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