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do all amps sound the same?

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chebby's picture
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RE: do all amps sound the same?

CnoEvil wrote:

chebby wrote:

Why? I've quoted it myself a few times here.

It was reprehensible then and was not a moment in British hi-fi history to celebrate now.

For the reasons you've just mentioned.....and I totally agree, as I hate patronizing arrogance in all its forms, especially when used for cynical marketing purposes.

It was an arrogant period in British hi-fi at the time. The hi-fi press (most of it) hitched their wagon to the fortunes of Linn and Naim for over a decade and took on the same kind of tone.

Manufacturer yawped unto journalist and 'their sound' was heard throughout the land.  

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

I see a number of replies but I'm getting a feeling that no one cared to read the article to which I linked. let me summary then: the guy, Carver, an audio engineer and designer of hi-fi gear claimed that he could easily replicate the sound of any amp Stereophile wish to choose. so they agreed to take up the challenge and they first compared his amp (at stock "stettings") with a Conrad-Johnson tube amp. the differences were clear to hear. and then after a couple of hours of tinkering the guys couldn't distinguish one from another. and there was no blind testing BTW so every bias could be taken into consideration but despite that they couldn't hear any difference.

moral? IMO it doesn't really matter which amp you chose, no sound is objectively better from the other as long as both amps work well with your speakers of choice. unless of course someone will finally find the formula for the "straight wire with gain".

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

oldric_naubhoff wrote:

... unless of course someone will finally find the formula for the "straight wire with gain"

What I want is an amplifier that measures brilliantly under all load conditions and adds no colouration of its own. Hopefully someone will design a Class D amp that does this. Then someone else will design some nifty real time DSP box that will allow me to make this neutral amp sound like anything I want it to e.g. a valve amp, a retro Sansui etc. etc. Wink

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chebby's picture
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RE: do all amps sound the same?

tino wrote:

oldric_naubhoff wrote:

... unless of course someone will finally find the formula for the "straight wire with gain"

What I want is an amplifier that measures brilliantly under all load conditions and adds no colouration of its own. Hopefully someone will design a Class D amp that does this. Then someone else will design some nifty real time DSP box that will allow me to make this neutral amp sound like anything I want it to e.g. a valve amp, a retro Sansui etc. etc. Wink

Nice idea. Purists will hate it of course.

User customisable DSP modes as well please. (And a facility for downloadable DSP modes from 3rd parties too.)

 

 

 

 

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

arashid wrote:

of course different amps sound different. it's easy to hear the difference in various naim amps.

 

as Julian Vereker and Ivor used to say, if you can't hear the difference, then you aren't worth speaking to.

 

I heard many amps so far, but I chose to buy Naim, and like it a lot.

 

Different amps for different people, sure. Some people like their hi fi amps, but I prefer to hear real music, hence naim.

Don't quite get what all the fuss about cryus is about, but plays a clean sound which I am sure appeals to many people here.

 

 

I have to agree with what has already been mentioned, in that the statement re messrs Vereker and Tiifenbrum as quoted, is, patronising arrogance at it's finest re the snob HiFi sell, and also I might add, both insulting and offensive to many people - especially people with serious, formal, musical training.

No wonder Naim still attract a lot of derision with a history of comments made like that.

i don't want to denigrate your choice of kit in any way - but speaking as a former Naim owner, and disciple, or should that be sheep?..lol.. I recommend you don't fall for the marketing spiel about 'real music' v's HIfi - I'm a trained classical musician, and went from Naim to ES Sony, and now B&O - in principle because they reproduce the music in a much more believable, natural and realistic manner, when the performance is assessed against musical criteria.

Which is not to say Naim is bad, on the contrary, I believe it to be very good, but it most certainly doesn't corner the market on musical reproduction, whilst everthing else is mere 'HiFi'; - it simply isn't true, and is yet another example of marketing hype playing upon the lack of knowledge and insecurities of audiophiles over and above any objective, verifiable and proveable fact.

JB

 

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

JMacMan wrote:

Which is not to say Naim is bad, on the contrary, I believe it to be very good, but it most certainly doesn't corner the market on musical reproduction, whilst everthing else is mere 'HiFi'; - it simply isn't true, and is yet another example of marketing hype playing upon the lack of knowledge and insecurities of audiophiles over and above any objective, verifiable and proveable fact.

JB

Something sounds great until until you hear better.......which is why it's great to see people come on here and talk about brands that are, well.....less talked about.

IMO. The single biggest mistake that people make when buying hifi, is narrowing their vision down to a couple of attention grabbing brands, thus ignoring some wonderful kit.

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

chebby wrote:

tino wrote:

oldric_naubhoff wrote:

... unless of course someone will finally find the formula for the "straight wire with gain"

What I want is an amplifier that measures brilliantly under all load conditions and adds no colouration of its own. Hopefully someone will design a Class D amp that does this. Then someone else will design some nifty real time DSP box that will allow me to make this neutral amp sound like anything I want it to e.g. a valve amp, a retro Sansui etc. etc. Wink

Nice idea. Purists will hate it of course.

User customisable DSP modes as well please. (And a facility for downloadable DSP modes from 3rd parties too.)

DSP can already emulate the sound of different equipment and has done for a while.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug10/articles/modelling-plugins.htm

Software even exists to emulate speakers.

What the article shows is that amplifiers can be made to sound the same as each other, or entirely unique. As we are all trying to listen to the music that comes from whatever media we have chosen, it seems eminently sensible to choose equipment that is as transparent as ones budget allows. Why start adding filters in between the media and the speakers?

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

Overdose wrote:

DSP can already emulate the sound of different equipment and has done for a while.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug10/articles/modelling-plugins.htm

Software even exists to emulate speakers.

What the article shows is that amplifiers can be made to sound the same as each other, or entirely unique. As we are all trying to listen to the music that comes from whatever media we have chosen, it seems eminently sensible to choose equipment that is as transparent as ones budget allows. Why start adding filters in between the media and the speakers?

This is a very interesting area, which will be interesting to see if it takes off.

I remain sceptical, as if I want the sound of a tube amp, I'd buy one, rather than try and mimic one.

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

CnoEvil wrote:

Overdose wrote:

DSP can already emulate the sound of different equipment and has done for a while.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug10/articles/modelling-plugins.htm

Software even exists to emulate speakers.

What the article shows is that amplifiers can be made to sound the same as each other, or entirely unique. As we are all trying to listen to the music that comes from whatever media we have chosen, it seems eminently sensible to choose equipment that is as transparent as ones budget allows. Why start adding filters in between the media and the speakers?

This is a very interesting area, which will be interesting to see if it takes off.

I remain sceptical, as if I want the sound of a tube amp, I'd buy one, rather than try and mimic one.

It's been around for over a decade, just not used for home hifi very much, but AV make prodigous use of DSP for various effects.

If you have a tansparent amp of any flavour and overlay a 'valve filter' then the sound is all that matters surely? Unless you just happen to like the glowing bits of course, I see no particular reason to buy any specific amp if it can be made to sound like any other. You could choose the amp for a variety of other reasons and leave sound quality out of the equation.

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

CnoEvil wrote:

I remain sceptical, as if I want the sound of a tube amp, I'd buy one, rather than try and mimic one.

Not if it costs much less than a valve amp to match the same 'character' or colouration or traits (or whatever you call it) without the heat and power consumption and faff and - generally - ugly looks.

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

CnoEvil wrote:

Overdose wrote:

DSP can already emulate the sound of different equipment and has done for a while.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug10/articles/modelling-plugins.htm

Software even exists to emulate speakers.

What the article shows is that amplifiers can be made to sound the same as each other, or entirely unique. As we are all trying to listen to the music that comes from whatever media we have chosen, it seems eminently sensible to choose equipment that is as transparent as ones budget allows. Why start adding filters in between the media and the speakers?

This is a very interesting area, which will be interesting to see if it takes off.

I remain sceptical, as if I want the sound of a tube amp, I'd buy one, rather than try and mimic one.

Why not save yourself hours of fiddling, fine tuning, valve rolling and the like and simply buy a solid state amplifier that sounds the same as a valve amplifier.

Ref...... http://audioamateur.com/amps/honeycutt-amp-sound-axnov12/

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

chebby wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

I remain sceptical, as if I want the sound of a tube amp, I'd buy one, rather than try and mimic one.

Not if it costs much less than a valve amp to match the same 'character' or colouration or traits (or whatever you call it) without the heat and power consumption and faff and - generally - ugly looks.

I suspect it would cost more, as first you need a competent amp, then you need a decent DSP thingy, and then pay someone to set the whole thing up properly.....and the Valve amp will likely sound better anyway!  doh!

It may look like a Golf....... >)

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

davedotco wrote:

Why not save yourself hours of fiddling, fine tuning, valve rolling and the like and simply buy a solid state amplifier that sounds the same as a valve amplifier.

I did.

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

CnoEvil wrote:

davedotco wrote:

Why not save yourself hours of fiddling, fine tuning, valve rolling and the like and simply buy a solid state amplifier that sounds the same as a valve amplifier.

I did.

Now who's showing off?  Good answer though!

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RE: do all amps sound the same?

Macspur wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

davedotco wrote:

Why not save yourself hours of fiddling, fine tuning, valve rolling and the like and simply buy a solid state amplifier that sounds the same as a valve amplifier.

I did.

Now who's showing off?  Good answer though!

No names, no pack-drill.  silenced

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