On one hand there are a group of posters who believe introducing 2 inches of thick conductive jumper plate into a speaker circuit is clearly audible, and there are others who think introducing a metre here or there of speaker cable makes no difference. Can't be both now, can it.
yes, if there's an inverse relationship between length and making a difference ("less is more" )
Otherwise, good point.
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yes, if there's an inverse relationship between length and making a difference ("less is more" ;-)
I am sure your point was tongue in cheek, but before we get a whole series of daft posts, the implication of 'less is more' is that an infinitely short piece of wire will have an infinitely large effect. Which of course it doesn't.
I meant less is more + c
Seriously though, resistance is inversely proportional to diameter, so why are speaker wires so thin? I mean 79 strand? Why not 179? And why do we not hear advice about double or treble wiring? I assume because of diminishing returns.
Everything in engineering is a compromise. Ideally, you would have no speaker cable - mount the amp in the speaker. This is one of the reasons active speakers get a head start.
Speaker cable forms part of a system with the output impedance of the amp and the input impedance of the speaker. It is complex to analyse, and there are all sorts of rules of thumb on the Internet. As a general rule, for normal (4 to 8 ohm) speakers 2.5mm squared cable gets the job done up to about 5 metres. Thicker is better, as is shorter. As you say, diminishing returns come into play.
Just an fwiw, resistance is inversely proportional to diameter squared, it's an area vs linear measurement thing.
To the OP:-
Unfortunately this always was heading for a cable debate.
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The OPs question revolved around the connection of speaker cables and jumpers at the rear of his speakers. Many posters discussed the apparent benefits of replacing jumpers with speaker cable. How could the debate not have covered the conduction properties of speaker cable?
That, unfortuanately, is only partially correct. He was discussing which terminals he should connect his speaker cable to.
'Am I the only person who wired things up incorrectly?'
I don't see where he has asked about the benefits of replacing his 'jumpers' with the original connecting plates / rods.
i don't see what is incorrect. As I said, the OP was discussing jumpers and cables, other poster discussed plates. It is only by understanding that the resistance of a few inches of speaker cable is negligable, that it is clear that it makes no difference which terminals the connections are made at the back of the speaker. As long as the red plugs go in red holes and black plug go in black holes you will be fine.
I recently un-biwired my speakers. I originally reused the cheapo bendy plates but decided to make up some jumpers. Sounds dead simple doesn't it? My speakers have the usual binding posts that accept spades that the collar screws onto or 4 mm banana plugs. The high quality banana plugs on both ends of the speaker cable aren't stackable so the obvious solution was to buy decent quality spades - QED pack of 4 for £16 from Amazon.
So the jumpers had bananas on one end & spades on the other, intending to bridge pos to pos & neg to neg. Firstly the jumpers were too short because the spades would only connect in one orientation! I ended up putting the spades onto the main speaker cable instead with the jumpers having the bananas. Tiresome yes but further problems - when I screwed the down the terminals, the spades would be pushed back out. The terminals are so close together, it was impossible to get the damn spades tight! I resorted to buying some cheapo stackable banana plugs that my speaker cable now plug into. My quest for decent stacking banana plugs continues.
This supposedly simple task of replacing the jumper plates has not only left me traumatised but has given me an abiding hatred for spade connectors!
See Furutech for decent stackable banana plugs!
thanks but I'll continue to hunt for something less £79.95 for two pairs!
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With regards to banana connectors - as another poster stated, they are predominantly point contact - albeit perhaps an annular point or ring.
As such, surely these will affect the sound significantly since the area of contact is small - hence less metal for the signal to travel through.
If people use banana connectors on cables - the effect of banana connectors should be much more significant than the cable used.
Yet - are people using banana connectors, and then believing that the change in sound is due to a cable with slightly different characterstics to another cable ?.
Or, that a small piece of wire or plate for a jumper and the order that the wires are connected yet still yielding the same connectivity has such an impact on sound ?
If people are willing to use banana connectors, but then state the cables and connection order make such a difference - is this imaginary ?
The cross sectional area of a banana connector contact is rather small compared to implementing binding posts connection with cable direct - so if you cannot hear any difference using banana connectors - are you actually hearing a difference with cables, and cable connection changes ?
I'll say it again...it is all subject and down to what ONE hears on ONES system. I can hear a difference on mine...but may not be able to hear the same or any on yours (if I could egt a listen to it).
Best approach is to try it and see; asymmetric connection costs nothing to try/you can get a set of four jumpers on e@&# for between £10 - £25 (the higher cositng one seem to be the much spoken about TQ Blue BTW)...so if one wants to try it one can. Simples.
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Perhaps another idea would be to unscrew the terminals (if possible) and connect both internal wirs to one set of terminals and then single wire without jumpers. Technically this would give the shortest signal path and therefore the best sound.
Everyones happy except the retailers who can sell a 10cm length of speaker cable for £80
OK - so the changes on this forum that i have read - obviously i could not read all.
1. Change in cable
2. Change in speaker jumpers from plate to wire
3. Change in mains cable - or gold plated connections.
4. Change in speaker cable connection orientation on speaker terminals (this thread)
5. In another forum - and publication - the rubber feet on a DAC changed to affect the sound
6. Fuse in plug changed to a "better" ??? fuse to improve the sound.
So individually all these changes are stated to change the sound.
Some specific people have made a selection of the changes listed above.
If each has a significant or appreciable effect to change the sound to be better, then the collection of the changes (which some people have applied) must improve the sound considerably - since each change has a significant or appreciable change on their own.
So the current system must sound very different and much better to the original setup ?
Or is it, that each small change made does not actually affect the sound, but you think it does ?
Do those people who made each change actually think about what they have done up to this point, if they have applied many of the changes above individually ?
Is the sound so much better than before any changes ?
Or is it you have made each change, and confirmed to yourself that each change was for the better, without realising that if taken as a whole - your system really does not sound any different than it did before ALL the changes ?
To quote a person on another forum - audio is the only area where people throw out the physics rule book.
At a recent show I listened to a Russ Andrews demonstration. He hooked up a 2nd hand £300 system with "freebie" cables, then swapped the cables for mid range ones, and then £20,000 worth of cables.
There is no doubt in my mind that both the mid range cabes and the exotic cables made the system sound better then the freebies and to be fair, it did sound good with £20k's worth of cable.
But I couldn't help but think, how would it sound compared to a £20k hifi wired up with £300 of 2nd hand cables?
The point of the demo was to show that better cables do make a difference. With my ears Russ achieved this, but I think there is a level where you are better upgrading your equipment.
Anyway, apologies, this is off topic and not adressing the OPs questin about different terminals. My view on that, is that if it really makes a difference as stated above, you should rewire the internal cabes and single wire the speakers.
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