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Correct wiring of jumper cables

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Baldrick1's picture
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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

-www.futureshop.co.uk for a pair of 20cm jumpers (terminated/sleeved)  from Chord Signature cable for £33.50 (or £66.50 for both speakers).  Sounds like a good deal.

Having said that I tried, at lunch time, the Red to Treble & Black to Bass (or asymetric bananas...as I am calling them) with binding posts linked as for single wire and I believe I can hear a difference, i.e., improved HF...which may not be surprising given that the HF driver is getting the signal directly rather than going through the plate/connection to allow single wiring rather than biwiring.

Need to listen some more but this seems promising...and is at no cost. party time!

Balders 

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

BigColz wrote:

Benedict_Arnold wrote:

Scrub that - I've just checked the prices on these cables shocked

Suddenly 85 quid for a set of jumpers doesn't seem so bad.

I got 2 x 2m TQ Black terminated for £150 so it's over half the price again for jumpers which IMO is overpriced.. I had Chord Epic before which is the same price per metre and the Epic jumpers are £40 which is more reasonable.. £25 blues will be fine.. 

I think you might be better with some quality Chord Signature (all copper) links, as has been suggested.....if you feel the TQ Black are just too expensive.

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

BigColz wrote:

IMO £300 on speaker cables and interconnects for £5-6k worth of kit is a pretty reasonable amount at 5% of the cost.. 

Don't disagree.  I used to use two runs of Chord Odyssey 4 4-core cables to bi-wire each speaker in my Cyrus / ProAc setup, with paired conductors for +ve (or red) and -ve (or black) treble, and the same again for the bass, or bi-bi-wired, if you like Smile

Would be a bit wasted on my current Onkyo receiver and bottom of the range Klipsch Reference 42 speakers though, so the Chord cables are sitting in a box in the attic, nice and safe from the spotty oiks.   For my current setup, I think flat twin and earth or doorbell wire might be overkill..........

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

CnoEvil wrote:

BigColz wrote:

Benedict_Arnold wrote:

Scrub that - I've just checked the prices on these cables shocked

Suddenly 85 quid for a set of jumpers doesn't seem so bad.

I got 2 x 2m TQ Black terminated for £150 so it's over half the price again for jumpers which IMO is overpriced.. I had Chord Epic before which is the same price per metre and the Epic jumpers are £40 which is more reasonable.. £25 blues will be fine.. 

I think you might be better with some quality Chord Signature (all copper) links, as has been suggested.....if you feel the TQ Black are just too expensive.

 

Yeah think you might be right.. It's a nightmare in my current room acoustically.. Streamer is going back this weekend to get the screen replaced so will do some tests next month, then moving start of April  good job

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Baldrick1's picture
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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

Baldrick1 wrote:

Having said that I tried, at lunch time, the Red to Treble & Black to Bass (or asymetric bananas...as I am calling them) with binding posts linked as for single wire and I believe I can hear a difference, i.e., improved HF...which may not be surprising given that the HF driver is getting the signal directly rather than going through the plate/connection to allow single wiring rather than biwiring.

Need to listen some more but this seems promising...and is at no cost. party time!

Balders 

Update...the wife (who has better  ears than me) has confirmed that there is a significant difference in the sound using the "asymetric banana" approach...same bass but more cohesive, better detail & space in terms of the treble...so looks like a keeper.

Just wondering as to why this is not recommended by the speaker manufacturers, which leads me to wonder if it will damage the speaker electrics in anyway?  Can't see why when following the siganl paths 'virtually' but there is a doubt in my mind.

Checked the manual again and whilst they advise single wiring positive & negative to the LF posts they do not explicitly warn or advise against wiring positive & negative to the HF posts, i.e., the other extreme, as the "asymetric banana" approach is mid way betwween the two? 

So, does anyone have the technical expertise to answer this question (now is the time to stop hiding your light under a bushel Wink

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Baldrick1's picture
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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

May have just answered my own question having come across a PDF document (-http://www.audioquest.com/theory-education/) entitled "Understanding BiWiring" which states:

"For 2-way speakers be sure to put the red connector to treble + and black connector to bass -. This is the only way to preserve the tonal voice the speaker designer intended." with a little diagram to confirm this.

So seems like a usuable approach and if the people at AudioQuest think so/advocate it then I would assume that it is OK (still would be interesting to know what KEF think).

The rest of the document is very enlighteniing...and a good read on the subject.

Hope that helps?

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

Baldrick1 wrote:

May have just answered my own question having come across a PDF document (-http://www.audioquest.com/theory-education/) entitled "Understanding BiWiring" which states:

"For 2-way speakers be sure to put the red connector to treble + and black connector to bass -. This is the only way to preserve the tonal voice the speaker designer intended." with a little diagram to confirm this.

So seems like a usuable approach and if the people at AudioQuest think so/advocate it then I would assume that it is OK (still would be interesting to know what KEF think).

The rest of the document is very enlighteniing...and a good read on the subject.

Hope that helps?

Hi,

I read the PDF document - and here is a snippet :

"What about those“free” shiny metal jumpers that came with the speaker? It’s entirely accurate to describe these as “worth every penny you paid for them.” Simply put, these are very poor sounding devices."

I am thoroughly sceptical on this statement - and the other areas where placing a wire on one terminal and connecting to the other with a cable sounds so completely different to the reverse order. There is no scientific explanation, but just text telling you that you must do it.

When i read reviews of amplifiers sounding different - i can accept that, as they are designed different - and generally for solid state they are similar in sound (but obviously different) due to changes in topology.

Surely a bit of metal or cable cannot make such a marked difference, and the order that you connect them too - when amplifiers are stated to have a much less difference, and they are so much more complex than a bit of metal or cable.

Is this change being overstated ?

It reminds me of directional cables - is there such a thing ?. Or are you being told it is important that the direction is correct so you believe there is a correct way of connecting, and hence hear the difference you expect ?

I don't believe electrons get confused - so perhaps a bit of blind testing - get someone else to change the connections when you are out of the room multiple times and see if you can hear the changes and get it 100% every time.

Regards,

Shadders.

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

Appreciate your point of view and I do take what the is stated in the document with a pinch of salt however...

shadders wrote:

[I don't believe electrons get confused - so perhaps a bit of blind testing - get someone else to change the connections when you are out of the room multiple times and see if you can hear the changes and get it 100% every time.

Regards,

Shadders.

Actually did that with the wife.  Had her blind test as you have described and she got it 'right' 9 out of 10 times...guessing when the speakers where 'asymetrically' wired and when not. good job

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

I recently un-biwired my speakers. I originally reused the cheapo bendy plates but decided to make up some jumpers. Sounds dead simple doesn't it? My speakers have the usual binding posts that accept spades that the collar screws onto or 4 mm banana plugs. The high quality banana plugs on both ends of the speaker cable aren't stackable so the obvious solution was to buy decent quality spades - QED pack of 4 for £16 from Amazon.

So the jumpers had bananas on one end & spades on the other, intending to bridge pos to pos & neg to neg. Firstly the jumpers were too short because the spades would only connect in one orientation! I ended up putting the spades onto the main speaker cable instead with the jumpers having the bananas. Tiresome yes but further problems - when I screwed the down the terminals, the spades would be pushed back out. The terminals are so close together, it was impossible to get the damn spades tight! I resorted to buying some cheapo stackable banana plugs that my speaker cable now plug into. My quest for decent stacking banana plugs continues.

This supposedly simple task of replacing the jumper plates has not only left me traumatised but has given me an abiding hatred for spade connectors!

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

Baldrick1 wrote:

Appreciate your point of view and I do take what the is stated in the document with a pinch of salt however...

shadders wrote:

[I don't believe electrons get confused - so perhaps a bit of blind testing - get someone else to change the connections when you are out of the room multiple times and see if you can hear the changes and get it 100% every time.

Regards,

Shadders.

Actually did that with the wife.  Had her blind test as you have described and she got it 'right' 9 out of 10 times...guessing when the speakers where 'asymetrically' wired and when not. good job

Hi,

I am amazed - it would be nice if those people stating it must be implemented this way provided an explanation why. The audioquest website makes the statement it must be this way, but again, no explanation.

If such a change is evident, then scientific investigation is needed - since a piece of metal orientation should not from theory cause such a difference.

Regards,

Shadders.

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

shadders wrote:

Hi,

I am amazed - it would be nice if those people stating it must be implemented this way provided an explanation why. The audioquest website makes the statement it must be this way, but again, no explanation.

If such a change is evident, then scientific investigation is needed - since a piece of metal orientation should not from theory cause such a difference.

Regards,

Shadders.

To be honest shadders I suspect that it very much depends on the speakers that this is applied to.  I suspect that on some the diffeence due to orientation will be more tangible and therefore the test easier to suceed at whilst on other the difference will be marginal and therefore less easy to discern.

 

I believe that in the case of the KEFs it is widely recommended that they sound better biwired than single wired and whilst this is not biwiring it is moving in that direction...if you see where I am coming from.

Suspect that in the case of your speakers this change in orientation or biwiring would make as big a difference to single wiring...but may be wrong on that.

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

shadders wrote:

Baldrick1 wrote:

Appreciate your point of view and I do take what the is stated in the document with a pinch of salt however...

shadders wrote:

[I don't believe electrons get confused - so perhaps a bit of blind testing - get someone else to change the connections when you are out of the room multiple times and see if you can hear the changes and get it 100% every time.

Regards,

Shadders.

Actually did that with the wife.  Had her blind test as you have described and she got it 'right' 9 out of 10 times...guessing when the speakers where 'asymetrically' wired and when not. good job

Hi,

I am amazed - it would be nice if those people stating it must be implemented this way provided an explanation why. The audioquest website makes the statement it must be this way, but again, no explanation.

If such a change is evident, then scientific investigation is needed - since a piece of metal orientation should not from theory cause such a difference.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

I would be amazed, except I am 100% certain that if we heard the full methodology then these would not be proper (double) blind tests and there would be an obvious reason why there was an apparent positive. Likewise recent claims from Acalex and Cnoevil. 

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

BenLaw wrote:

I would be amazed, except I am 100% certain that if we heard the full methodology then these would not be proper (double) blind tests and there would be an obvious reason why there was an apparent positive. Likewise recent claims from Acalex and Cnoevil. 

To be honest you can believe what you want to...I am satisfied that there is a tangible difference and I am not imagining it given that someone else has heard it to (in fact the first reaction to listening to the changed orientation was "that is different...what have you done?").

I am not going to go prescriptive on this as I have previously said I believe that the results /benefits will vary depending on ones kit, etc.  One just has to try and listen...and then decide.  Simples. Wink

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

Baldrick1 wrote:

 

...I am satisfied that there is a tangible difference and I am not imagining it given that someone else has heard it to (in fact the first reaction to listening to the changed orientation was "that is different...what have you done?").

I am not going to go prescriptive on this as I have previously said I believe that the results /benefits will vary depending on ones kit, etc.  One just has to try and listen...and then decide.  Simples. Wink

Well Baldrick, I believe your cunning plan is real. excellent!

 

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RE: Correct wiring of jumper cables

On further thought I have come up with a potential theory. 

My THEORY is that it's about the length of the circuit. If both speaker cables were plugged into the bass connections this forms a circuit. The jumper cables or metal plates take the signal to the treble inputs and create a circuit. The circuit for the treble would be longer. Only by the length of the jumper cables but still longer. If the cables are input asymmetrically the circuits for the bass and treble become an equal length. Treble circuit is length of speaker cable plus 1 jumper cable and the same for the bass circuit. Maybe this equalling of circuit paths is why I find it sounds " more together. 

One of the basics is that speaker cables should be the same length. 

The human ear is extremely sensitive. 

There we go, a sound engineering basis. 

Smug springs to mind.