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RE: Classe amplification

Neuphonix wrote:

yes "transient notion" does sum it up, that is waht I am trying to be cautious of.

Can I ask, do you still own a TT / listen to vinyl often/ever?

I no longer own a TT, but occasionally listen at both of the 2 dealers I use. I still have a soft spot for the LP12, but the higher spec versions get into silly money.

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RE: Classe amplification

The house that my wife & I are minding at the moment belongs to the guy who sort of prompted me to consider the hifi road.

He has a pair of Diablos being fed my and AMS50/primo with vinyl set-up.

Really good hearing the Diablos again in a good system. Not that I would ever go back, but does remind me of why I fell in live with them in the first place.

They certainly seem to perform much better with vinyl & also in a larger room with more space.

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RE: Classe amplification

The house that my wife & I are minding at the moment belongs to the guy who sort of prompted me to consider the hifi road.

He has a pair of Diablos being fed my and AMS50/primo with vinyl set-up.

Really good hearing the Diablos again in a good system. Not that I would ever go back, but does remind me of why I fell in live with them in the first place.

They certainly seem to perform much better with vinyl & also in a larger room with more space.

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RE: Classe amplification

Neuphonix wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

Neuphonix wrote:

I'm looking after a friends house at the moment so didn't get a chance to listen for long, will update you more when I have listened for longer.

I expect nothing less, and am very much looking forward to hearing about any improvements over the 35P.

Have you thought of listening to a Linn TT?

The planned Kliax upgrade did not end up happening, and in some ways this might end up being a blessing.

I'm still not 100% certain about heading down the vinyl rd, but I do have to admit the sound is special & unique.

The Linn TT will prob get a spot on my list, but TBH I don't like the look of them, I know it's the sound which is paramount but I do prefer a more modern styling.

So far in the 1 day I have spent considering the option I have ended up with a list which included RP6/RP8, Clearaudio performance, VPI scout series & now as per Steve's suggestion the Micel Geotec. The dealer I bought my DS from has a second hand clearaudio champion in stock which may be worth considering.

I still have a lot to learn on this fron before I make any commitment.

Did a good demo yesterday with a friend who was considering a speaker purchase. Had a chance to listen to the new Focal Aria's on the end on an M6i, they are nice,detailed but not as forward as the normal Focal sound. BIG speakers, very imposing.

My mate bought a second hand set of Krix Neuphonix floorstanders, change over price from his old floorstanders was very low, so too good a deal to pass on. While we were there I convinced him to spend some time checking out amps as well, he's wasn't sold on the need to buy a good amp.

Started with the M6i and I have to say it was entirely unconvincing, really lacked control in the bottom end, sounded dry & almost lifeless. Tested it with an AMS-CD, Rega RP8 on both the Krix & Focal speakers.

The we changed to an Electro ECi-3 & you should have seen the look on his face!!! He just GOT what I had been on about in an instant. Must more life & detail, much more control in the bottom end. It was interesting for me as I had not heard the Elctro sound before. Detailed, dark & warm, almost syrupy sweet, perhaps a touch to much so for my taste. I really liked it, but it seemed to flavour the sound more than I was used to & I'm not sure I could live with that in the long term.

Then we swapped to an AMS-35i. Didn't have time to warm it up to be at its best, but to my ears better. Same level of detail & control, but more open & not so sweet.

My friend actually said he prefered the Electro sound however, so we might be going back to do a shoot off between the EC3 & EC5. I'm trying to sell him my old 35P and get him to buy and Naim or Linn DSM to use as a pre-amp instead.

 

I am glad you liked the Electro ECI3 , it's not bad for the entry level amp in the classic range is it  Smile .

The  sweetness you mention does reduce slightly when the amp has been in use for a few hours, the sound becomes faster and more detailed with more pronounced dynamic swings and greater focus, depth and layering of the soundstage.

There are two versions of the ECI5 , the original that is unfortunately now discontinued which was really just a much more powerful version of the ECI3,  and the ECI5 MK2 that sounds slightly more forward and has a  less sweet and dark presentation .

The  ECI3 can compete with some very exotic equipment as you have heard  Smile

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RE: Classe amplification

[/quote]

I am glad you liked the Electro ECI3 , it's not bad for the entry level amp in the classic range is it  Smile .

The  sweetness you mention does reduce slightly when the amp has been in use for a few hours, the sound becomes faster and more detailed with more pronounced dynamic swings and greater focus, depth and layering of the soundstage.

There are two versions of the ECI5 , the original that is unfortunately now discontinued which was really just a much more powerful version of the ECI3,  and the ECI5 MK2 that sounds slightly more forward and has a  less sweet and dark presentation .

The  ECI3 can compete with some very exotic equipment as you have heard  Smile

[/quote]

Not bad is probably selling it a bit short  Smile For basically the same money as the M6i, it utterly wiped the floor.

We were a little rushed for time so didn't get a chance to listen to the ECI5. If the characteristics are as you describe, perhaps that would suit my taste more. I think after having lived with the AMS sound for a year or so now, I have become a bit of a snob.

But my friend was completely sold on the ECI3 sound, he couldn't stop talking about it. The one aspect that he didn't like was the styling, bit too 80's for him.

He has a few decisions to make, depending on how far his budget can be stretched.

1) Buy my ASM35P & a Linn Majik DSM / Naim Uniti to use as a preamp / source.

2) Buy an Electro ECI3 or 5 & decide on a source.

Both avenues have pros & cons, but I really feel that option 1 is slightly better.

Any thoughts on the use of the Linn or Naim as a pre-amp?

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RE: Classe amplification

Neuphonix wrote:

Not bad is probably selling it a bit short  Smile For basically the same money as the M6i, it utterly wiped the floor.

We were a little rushed for time so didn't get a chance to listen to the ECI5. If the characteristics are as you describe, perhaps that would suit my taste more. I think after having lived with the AMS sound for a year or so now, I have become a bit of a snob.

But my friend was completely sold on the ECI3 sound, he couldn't stop talking about it. The one aspect that he didn't like was the styling, bit too 80's for him.

He has a few decisions to make, depending on how far his budget can be stretched.

1) Buy my ASM35P & a Linn Majik DSM / Naim Uniti to use as a preamp / source.

2) Buy an Electro ECI3 or 5 & decide on a source.

Both avenues have pros & cons, but I really feel that option 1 is slightly better.

Any thoughts on the use of the Linn or Naim as a pre-amp?

I like the M6i, but prefer my AVR600 (and the Electro / Sugden).

The AMS sound does make one very fussy, as terms like warm, bright, smooth, forward, detailed, just become redundant......as it just sounds."right".

The Linn has quite a good Pre, but I have no idea about the Naim. This is a real trial and error one....option 1 looks better on paper, but would need tried.

How's the AMS50 going....much of an improvement?.....I bet the Refs are lapping up the extra current!  :rockout:

 

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RE: Classe amplification

Yes I'm writing up the for & against for both the Linn & the naim. One has a CD player (Uniti2) one has HDMI in/out (Majik), not really sure why you need either TBH. The Linn phono stage is another plus. Also, as I am familiar with the Linn set-up I can prob be of greater assistance to him.

The Unitilite does look promising though given the price difference, esp as we wont be using the amp.

Still at my friends house until next Tuesday, so nothing more to offer on the AMS50 yet. I'll have to be content with listening to his AMS50 / Diablos and raiding his cellar while I do so.

Does feel a bit weird though, having such a nice new toy at home set-up & ready to go, but not being there to use it.

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RE: Classe amplification

Neuphonix wrote:

Yes I'm writing up the for & against for both the Linn & the naim. One has a CD player (Uniti2) one has HDMI in/out (Majik), not really sure why you need either TBH. The Linn phono stage is another plus. Also, as I am familiar with the Linn set-up I can prob be of greater assistance to him.

The Unitilite does look promising though given the price difference, esp as we wont be using the amp.

Still at my friends house until next Tuesday, so nothing more to offer on the AMS50 yet. I'll have to be content with listening to his AMS50 / Diablos and raiding his cellar while I do so.

Does feel a bit weird though, having such a nice new toy at home set-up & ready to go, but not being there to use it.

Am I right in thinking the Naim needs an Apple product to operate it (or am I making this up), whereas Linn works with just about everything?

The Majik DSM on its own sounds great with Kef R Series....I was very surprised, and that doesn't happen often.

I also suggest you have a listen to the LS50s, with a decent amp and a DS....just out of academic interest.  :shifty:

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RE: Classe amplification

Second-hand ECI3 on eBay for £950 plus postage of £30

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RE: Classe amplification

Neuphonix wrote:

.Still at my friends house until next Tuesday, so nothing more to offer on the AMS50 yet. I'll have to be content with listening to his AMS50 / Diablos and raiding his cellar while I do so.

Does feel a bit weird though, having such a nice new toy at home set-up & ready to go, but not being there to use it.

:poke: Spill!   :? Smile

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RE: Classe amplification

[/quote]

:poke: Spill!   :? Smile

[/quote]

What? have you had an accident?  Wink

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RE: Classe amplification

Neuphonix wrote:

What? have you had an accident?  Wink

NO!

Stop being so obtuse and SPILL!  Blum 3

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RE: Classe amplification

Well, been home for a week now & the first thing that I will say is that my brief flirtation with the idea of buying a TT is over. The Akurate just sounds superior to my ears.

Also, how glad I am to have moved away from the Diablos. As fine as they do sound, the Refs just wipe the floor. It was worthwhile to have had a couple of weeks to remind me of the differences between the two.

OK, onto the 50P. Bear in mind I did not do any side by side comparisons, the units are just too heavy to be able to easily set them up together. God the 50P is a beast, have had some difficulty in rearranging my rack to fit it in, not something I want to be moving around too often. Have ordered a nice thick granite tablet to place to amp on, it's way to heavy to go into the rack.

Got to say that there is not a massive difference, presentation is obviously very similar. I am definitely left with the impression that the Refs do appreciate the extra juice though, they just seem to be more controlled, stop & start on a dime.

This is most apparent in the lower end, before there was a slight wooliness in the low to mid bass, this is now significantly reduced. I do wonder if the room is the greater contributor in this regard than the amp?

So if I was to put a subjective % figure on the improvement to the system I would say 12.7562%.  :?

If I had had the opportunity to do a home demo prior to purchase I may not have bothered. But once I move the 35P on the changeover will have been manageable, so all in all pretty happy.

So you should probably be content with the 35i, while I don't doubt stepping up would improve things for you the difference is not night and day.

I'm dissapointed that the Klimax purchase didn't work out, I would have thought that the two in tandem would have added up to a pretty significant overall lift.

BTW I have also just added one of these into the system: http://thortechnologies.com.au/products/product/ps10-smart-power-station

Can't say that I noticed any difference to SQ at all, but that was not why I bought it. Primarily for protection, I want to make sure that my babies get the best. Interestingly I can now see that when it is up and running total power consumption is around 4 - 4.5 amps (at 220v).

 

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RE: Classe amplification

Neuphonix wrote:

Well, been home for a week now & the first thing that I will say is that my brief flirtation with the idea of buying a TT is over. The Akurate just sounds superior to my ears.

This is why I encourage people with a DS to think carefully before spending on vinyl, especially if they are starting from scratch.

Neuphonix wrote:

Also, how glad I am to have moved away from the Diablos. As fine as they do sound, the Refs just wipe the floor. It was worthwhile to have had a couple of weeks to remind me of the differences between the two.

Again, this would be my view. I like the Focals with the 35i, but it's always a relief to get back to the Refs.

Neuphonix wrote:

OK, onto the 50P. Bear in mind I did not do any side by side comparisons, the units are just too heavy to be able to easily set them up together. God the 50P is a beast, have had some difficulty in rearranging my rack to fit it in, not something I want to be moving around too often. Have ordered a nice thick granite tablet to place to amp on, it's way to heavy to go into the rack.

Got to say that there is not a massive difference, presentation is obviously very similar. I am definitely left with the impression that the Refs do appreciate the extra juice though, they just seem to be more controlled, stop & start on a dime.

This is most apparent in the lower end, before there was a slight wooliness in the low to mid bass, this is now significantly reduced. I do wonder if the room is the greater contributor in this regard than the amp?

So if I was to put a subjective % figure on the improvement to the system I would say 12.7562%.  :?

If I had had the opportunity to do a home demo prior to purchase I may not have bothered. But once I move the 35P on the changeover will have been manageable, so all in all pretty happy.

These are exactly the improvements I would expect, and when you get fully used to them, will probably be a greater improvement than you realize atm. It's the kind of upgrade that is worth having if you are not spending too much to change.

Neuphonix wrote:

So you should probably be content with the 35i, while I don't doubt stepping up would improve things for you the difference is not night and day.

It's probably the VFM sweet spot of the range

Neuphonix wrote:

I'm dissapointed that the Klimax purchase didn't work out, I would have thought that the two in tandem would have added up to a pretty significant overall lift.

I have no doubt that this will happen when the opportunity arises.....and imo will lift the level of performance in your system considerably.

Neuphonix wrote:

BTW I have also just added one of these into the system: http://thortechnologies.com.au/products/product/ps10-smart-power-station

Can't say that I noticed any difference to SQ at all, but that was not why I bought it. Primarily for protection, I want to make sure that my babies get the best. Interestingly I can now see that when it is up and running total power consumption is around 4 - 4.5 amps (at 220v).

The main thing is that it isn't making things worse. After you've lived with it for a while, plug the power amp into the wall to make sure that it isn't squashing dynamics.

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