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Alec's picture
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RE: cable sceptics give us your experiences !

No one's getting rich and famous because of a blind test.

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http://idc1966.blogspot.co.uk

http://idc1966.blogspot.co.uk/

idc is a member here, who makes cables.

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I have some copper wire on my

letsavit2 wrote:
...Argos chooping boards under my speakers now were talking!

Try upgarding the cheap Argos chopping boards for £200 luxury Harrods chopping boards. The bass will be deeper than the Mariana Trench and the silences between notes will be darker than black.

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RE: Mike, you are a brave fellow.

mikefarrow wrote:

thanks for input chris, but doesnt everybody think a system with fuller bass, as long as its still tuneful, is better ?

 

NO.

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RE: Mike, you are a brave fellow.

bigh (?) thanks for your detailed reply. 

do you have any experience with costlier cables in your system ?

 

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RE: Mike, you are a brave fellow.

I dunno, but this thread sounds like a Max....

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Does this thread include USB

Does this thread include USB cables as well. :?

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RE: Mike, you are a brave fellow.

mikefarrow wrote:

bigh (?) thanks for your detailed reply. 

do you have any experience with costlier cables in your system ?

 

 

No.

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Surely this

Surely this objective/subjective debate could be laid to rest with some sonic scientific experiments?

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RE: cable sceptics give us your experiences !

I have tried cable ranging from basic cheap ones to hundreds of pounds.

I believed that cables made a difference because of reviews and what I read.

I 'imagined' that the cables made a small difference of a few %.

I now use basic copper cables. I am upgrading my speaker cables from 0.75mm to 2.5mm but that is because at certain power levels 0.75mm can impede the current, or so I've read.

Not expensive though, the total cost of 6 metres (2 x 3m runs) of speaker cable & 8 connectors & getting them soldered will be less than £50.00

I'm thinking of trying a power cable, but a 3 metre cable will cost about £50.00. This could be useful as normal 3m cables are only rated to 5 amps. A higher spec cable can be 13 amps. Probably won't make a difference but with a 60 day money back guarantee from several suppliers why not try?

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RE: Mike, you are a brave fellow.

mikefarrow wrote:

thanks for your input trevc !

when i swapped the free "kettle lead" cable on my intergrated amp for a much thicker russ andrews signature cable the sound improved in all areas but mainly in the bass output of my system which became louder/fuller (?)

this is apparently due to the lower resistance that this thicker cable has hence it supplies the amp with power more easily.

wether this is true/the actual reason, i wouldnt know - i just know that this mains cable performs better than the free one !

Mike,

You are of course free to believe what you like, but that mains cable isn't impacting the bass response of your amp in any way. 

At a stretch, under very contrived circumstances, changing a mains cable MAY make a difference to the the pickup of stray RF (it can act as an aeriel), and if the amp has been designed very badly, this may eventually find its way to the output and possibly increase background noise. Nothing you are going to do to your mains cable (apart from disconnect it) will impact the bass response of your amp.

The technical explanation:

Mains is AC, your amp runs on DC.  The mains waveform is a sine wave, 50 complete waves per second. This is useless to power an amp, it is the wrong voltage, and needs to be rectified and smoothed.

The power supply in your amp first reduces the AC voltage through a transformer. This is then rectified through a bridge rectifier.  Instead of an AC waveform going positive and negative, the rectified signal now only has positive going pulses, 100 per second. This is still useless to power an amp, and has to be smoothed by a storage capacitor to fill in the gaps between the pulses.  The following link has a good explanation of this and diagrams of the waveforms.  Scroll down to "Full Wave Rectifier Waveforms":

  http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/blog/unregulated-power-supply.html

So, lets imagine that a bass drum kick comes along to be amplified, and it just happens to coincide with the point that the mains AC waveform is zero.  What happens?  The amp can't draw power from the AC supply, at this instant, there isn't any to be had. It draws power from the storage capacitor. The best analogy is to think of the storage capacitor as a bucket, the amp is fed from a hole in the bottom of the bucket by a steady stream, the AC waveform comes along from time to time to slosh some more water in the top of the bucket.

The point is that instantaneous power demands are met by the storage capacitiors in the power supply, not the mains AC waveform (how could it if it is zero?). The AC waveform supplies the AVERAGE power used by the amp, not the instantaneous peaks. The average power demand from an amp is very low, just a few 100's of watts at the most - even with very inefficent designs (most of the supply gets given off as heat, and doesn't find its way to the speakers) - your wife's hairdryer will draw many, many times the power of your amp.

So, how can changing the mains cable make any difference to the instantaneous power available in the amp to improve bass response?

It can't. 

 

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RE: cable sceptics give us your experiences !

Many of us are fed up with cable debates. Homeopathic medicines seem to attract similar debate but I cant think of other areas. The difference being that cables can undergo (simple) measurements.which should end the contovasy. But doesn't. Heyho

Yamaha V2065. MS Mezzo 5.1 Panasonic 42. Sony BD. Garrard 86SB. WD Live TV. SkyHD.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/lounge-hc-signature-update-bass-traps

 

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RE: cable sceptics give us your experiences !

mikefarrow wrote:

calling all cable sceptics, please detail your experiences with expensive cables and hence give reason for your scepticism weight !

include mains as well as interconnect/speaker cables tested including models tried plus models currently in use in your system.

please only reply if you have tried more expensive offereings giving your actual experiences - no comedians who have not tried pricer cables thanks !

Of course speaker cables make a difference.  Try replacing your cables with thin bell flex, you will notice a change.

What does not make a difference is replacing one perfectly good, adequately thick cable with another perfectly good, adequately thick cable.

The dominant factor in speaker cable performance is resistance, and this in turn is driven by conductor thickness.  Absent some wierdo basket weave cable or other hare-brained design, most cables of the same conductor thickness will have approximately the same electrical parameters - resitance, capacitance and inductance - and given that there is no magic in engineering, the will sound the same.

I am currently running Martin Logan ESLs driven by Krell amplification.  I have bi-wired these with NAC A5 - and managed to prove to myself that biwiring is a fools game, and the NAC A5 sounds the same as the cheapo no name (no pun intended) 4mm copper cable.

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RE: cable sceptics give us your experiences !

RobinKidderminster wrote:

Many of us are fed up with cable debates. Homeopathic medicines seem to attract similar debate but I cant think of other areas. The difference being that cables can undergo (simple) measurements.which should end the contovasy. But doesn't. Heyho

Cable performance analysis is a technical discipline, and most posting on here don't have the educational background to either perform the tests or interpret the results of other's tests. 

Couple this with commercial interests who are intent on muddying the waters for monetary gain, and a customer base subject to suggestion bias when evaluating the products themselves, and you have a potent mix for misunderstanding and dogma. 

What else would we post about? The weather?

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RE: cable sceptics give us your experiences !

So, Andy, you have no 'respect' for publications finding clear differences between speaker cables, hdmi cables etc? And therefore would find any reviews of little value? (Devils advocate)  Smile

Yamaha V2065. MS Mezzo 5.1 Panasonic 42. Sony BD. Garrard 86SB. WD Live TV. SkyHD.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/lounge-hc-signature-update-bass-traps

 

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