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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

altruistic.lemon wrote:

I see. So Hi res is essential for the pros, but bog standard res is ok for us simple folk.

You're right, thought, we wouldn't understand hi res. I mean, isn't headroom the amount of space in your bowler?   Smile

 

Tongue in cheek, of course

This link (clicky) will help explain why 'hi-res' is pointless in itself, and why 24 bit is essential for recording but not consumer playback (the answers rather than the OP).  The only thing that matters is the recording and mastering, not the format or whether it is a higher bit-rate than what CD offers (not talking about 5.1).  I can understand why these are being released on Bluray discs, but would prefer the marketing to concentrate on the high quality recording and mastering process, were appropriate.  I suppose that wouldn't be much use when they start to release old recordings on the format though.  As a format I don't see this one gaining any sort of momentum, and I suspect the people who are interested in 5.1 music are a tiny minority of the tiny minority who are interested in any kind of high quality music playback, although I'd be interested myself in the 5.1 mix if I had suitable equipment to play it back on - even if just out of curiosity.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

It's interesting that the critics, of which there are only a few, don't seem to have read the background material on the Hgh Res blu-ray, but trot out those old truisms which apply to SACD, CD, DVD Audio etc.

None of them seem to be wiling to listen to the new format, nor take it for what it is. Yes, it's a fear reaction (so my psychologist friend says) because it may force a change in to their world, and their beliefs.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

altruistic.lemon wrote:

It's interesting that the critics, of which there are only a few, don't seem to have read the background material on the Hgh Res blu-ray, but trot out those old truisms which apply to SACD, CD, DVD Audio etc.

None of them seem to be wiling to listen to the new format, nor take it for what it is. Yes, it's a fear reaction (so my psychologist friend says) because it may force a change in to their world, and their beliefs.

I've read it.  I wonder what your psychologist friend would say about someone who denies the facts about the limitations of human hearing and their hifi system to carry on trotting out the same nonsense.  CD as a format exceeds the capability of your hearing and hifi.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

And yet, recordings are mastered at higher resolutions than the CD standard. Why is that?

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

altruistic.lemon wrote:

And yet, recordings are mastered at higher resolutions than the CD standard. Why is that?

Now it's your turn to do some reading.  Read the link I provided, the Tech Ed. of S.o.S. magazine has rather kindly explained why.

Either we are at completely cross-purposes, or I'm at a loss as to what is so hard to understand about it.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

Explained or justified? Remember, I don't do complex, I wash dishes for a living.

By the way, it's a brilliant format, you shoud leave your prejudices behind you and give it a go. As they say in the kitchen, the proof of the pudding is in the eating  :cheers:

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

I don't do complex either,i plaster walls for a living.

All i know for a fact is that some cd's i have sound brilliant,a good few don't.

Some sacd's i have sound fantastic(becouse of the 5.1 mix)some don't.

Some of my dvd 5.1 music disks are good,as are some sky HD recordings.

I don't understand if this new format,resolution or whatever is better or it is indeed all in the mix...i suspect the latter.

I do wish tho the music industry would better serve those of us who not only enjoy listening to music,but spend a small fortune on speakers,amp's tt's and related stuff,ie:sort the cd's out :wall:

:cheers:

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

Andrew Everard wrote:

It's also available in stereo 320kbps MP3 if you want – I know, a flagrant waste of data, but you could always downsample it to 128kbps and then throw the original away. Wink

 

:clap:

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

Daveloc wrote:

 

In most cases they simply start to play with *some* default format, probably not the one you want, and there's no way to set the player to default to a particular signal type the way an SACD player can be set to default to a layer. You have to stop playback, select the menus, select the signal, restart playback at the beginning (simply pressing play will typically restart where you stopped). 

GRRR has arrived and your comments are spot on. Marrantz ud7007 and Sa 7007 normally work in harmony with BD HD formats and CDs and SACDs and automaticaly switch to the appropriate output. GRRR defaults to a 2 channel PCM /96 the amp says BLURAY DTS Neo 6 music by default and outputs a psuedo 5.1 of very dubious quality. Next turn on the plasma which reveals a very limited menu of 1-50 tracks with no names and the additional output option of HD dts and Dolby. Select one and the amp does not auto switch. After much frustration, the pure direct button hidden under a flap on the amp finally produces a coherent stereo output. Gone is the terrible, confused multi channel mishmash, woolly base and compression and the better recorded tracks are now more than a match for my CDs.

 

 

Detractors on this thread are correct, the GRRR example is more dogs dinner than dog's danglies.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

emperor's new clothes wrote:

Daveloc wrote:

 

In most cases they simply start to play with *some* default format, probably not the one you want, and there's no way to set the player to default to a particular signal type the way an SACD player can be set to default to a layer. You have to stop playback, select the menus, select the signal, restart playback at the beginning (simply pressing play will typically restart where you stopped). 

GRRR has arrived and your comments are spot on. Marrantz ud7007 and Sa 7007 normally work in harmony with BD HD formats and CDs and SACDs and automaticaly switch to the appropriate output. GRRR defaults to a 2 channel PCM /96 the amp says BLURAY DTS Neo 6 music by default and outputs a psuedo 5.1 of very dubious quality. Next turn on the plasma which reveals a very limited menu of 1-50 tracks with no names and the additional output option of HD dts and Dolby. Select one and the amp does not auto switch. After much frustration, the pure direct button hidden under a flap on the amp finally produces a coherent stereo output. Gone is the terrible, confused multi channel mishmash, woolly base and compression and the better recorded tracks are now more than a match for my CDs.

 

 

Detractors on this thread are correct, the GRRR example is more dogs dinner than dog's danglies.

So from this can we deduce that 5.1 is only going to be any good on BD audio for new recordings and decent SACD 5.1s like Wish You Were Here? Maybe someone will make a BD player that behaves like a cd player?

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

No, we deduce that some amps are difficult to setup  Smile 

Haven't got mine yet, so will add to this when it arrives. Possibly my not liking the Stones isn't going to help the assessment.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

altruistic.lemon wrote:

No, we deduce that some amps are difficult to setup  Smile 

Haven't got mine yet, so will add to this when it arrives. Possibly my not liking the Stones isn't going to help the assessment.

 

I thought you already had heard the Stones GRRR on BD audio?

 

Daveloc wrote "psuedo 5.1 of very dubious quality", he said the stereo was fine but not the 5.1.

 

 

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

No I have the new classical discs only.

My Sony BD player defaults to DTS also and it was a simple menu choice to change this to PCM - comes up on the BD track listing. As to sound quality, haven't fiddled between the two as what come out already sounds spot on to me. Also don't have the CDs to do a comparison, which is why I ordered the Stones so I'll be able to.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

BigH wrote:
 Maybe someone will make a BD player that behaves like a cd player? 

 

This is sort-of-possible but it's not clear whether HFPA does it.

CD only has one format, so any player plays it. 

SACD has three formats, the location of each is detectable in hardware so the players can be preset to whichever you want, and even default elsewhere if that one isn't available, but as 99% of the available titles are Music to Stroke Beards By, this doesn't help much.

DVD Audio was more complex, there were separate sectors for DVD-Video and DVD-Audio, and the discs could also be two-sided, so in theory up to four audio formats could be autodetected, but AFAIK, only one disc ever got this right: The Doobie Brothers "The Captain and Me". By far the better answer on DVD was just to emulate CD with a DVD-Video disc with no video and a single 24/96 PCM audio track, several specialist companies like Classic Records did just this but the major labels were so obsessed with multichannel at the time (like 3D video subsequently) they wouldn't even consider it. 

BluRay doesn't have these options because the discs are neither multisector nor multisided, so all format detection and switching has to be done in software, which typically means bringing up video menus to do it. There is a way of using the colour buttons on the BD player remote to select audio format without using a TV http://www.pureaudio-bluray.com/format/ (includes link to AES recommendations), but this requires authoring the discs appropriately. While existing releases from 2L and Naxos use this method, it's not clear if HFPA does, and given the ratio of marketing fluff to technical data in the launch docs, I haven't been able to find out. Perhaps someone with the GRRR disc can try it?

 

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