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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

The_Lhc wrote:
I don't see an audience sitting there?

It's relatively unusual to have an audience at a recording session, for obvious reasons, although of course some labels do record live performances, LSO Live being an example.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

The_Lhc wrote:

Andrew Everard wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:
I don't see why it would work for classical, you don't get to sit in the middle of the orchestra do you?

Read more here

I don't see an audience sitting there?

Similarly, I've never seen an orchestra arranged around a concert hall and the audience, also as you say, the surround sound capability would only add an extra level of realism to the ambience of the venue and not give any better resolution.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

The_Lhc wrote:
...if they took more care in the production and mastering of the CDs you wouldn't NEED a new format to get the benefit. And they'd be cheaper. Stereo only of course though, so if surround is your bag then of course you'll need to look elsewhere.

You have summed up the situation perfectly there LHC.

I'm not sure why people can't understand that provided they used same mastered version of the recording a CD will sound identical to a high resolution Blu-ray (stereo only though).

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

Overdose wrote:

Similarly, I've never seen an orchestra arranged around a concert hall and the audience, also as you say, the surround sound capability would only add an extra level of realism to the ambience of the venue and not give any better resolution.

So you don't think the extra level of realism will be of any benefit? I think surround sound HD format will sound pretty amazing, with better audio separation and spatial experience. 

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

steve_1979 wrote:

I'm not sure why people can't understand that provided they used same mastered version of the recording a CD will sound identical to a high resolution Blu-ray (stereo only though).

Because they don't want to, they want to believe this new thing is the greatest thing out there for music.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

BigH wrote:

steve_1979 wrote:

I'm not sure why people can't understand that provided they used same mastered version of the recording a CD will sound identical to a high resolution Blu-ray (stereo only though).

Because they don't want to, they want to believe this new thing is the greatest thing out there for music.

It's the modern way.

Selling high quality recorded music that has been produced by hard work, good solid engineering practises and care and attention is a waste of time, far better to have a new format, a new 'magic bullet', to grab the attention of the great unwashed.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

davedotco wrote:

 

Mr Malarky,

Just stop and think for a moment here, selling you both the hi-res and the CD version of the disc is an excellent maketing gimmick and you are falling for it.

You should be demanding that the industry produces the best CDs possible, not buying premium priced product that they are able to sell to you because they could not be bothered to get the CD rightin the first place

I have 5 of their DVD-Audio discs and only paid about £15 for each album (though I see they are going for much more on Amazon now), and 3 of these were albums I didn't already own so didn't represent a 'repeat' purchase. For each one I have a CD to listen to in the car and a 5.1 channel mix to listen to in the lounge (which sounds fantastic, and is completely different listening experience to the CD). I'm not quite sure what it is I'm 'falling for', or where the down-side is?

 

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

 

I think any debate about the potential of BluRay for high quality audio has to look at the total package and not just the bigger numbers attached to the raw datastreams. 

Take any CD, stick it in a CD player OR DVD player OR DVD-Audio player or SACD player OR BluRay player OR most games consoles OR most computers and press Play and *it*just*plays*. 

Take a digital feed from the outputs of pretty much any of the above, and feed it to an external DAC, and the sound improves. 

Neither of these things necessarily apply to a BluRay audio disc — they certainly didn't to DVD-Audio and there's no evidence that record company executives have become any more interested in ease of use or sound quality since that debacle. 

On the basis of the small number of so-called "audio-only" BluRays I've tried over the last few years, the very best you can hope for is that the disc will halt on insertion till you turn the TV on and work through the (completely arbitrary) menus to select the sound format you want, while being assailed by corporate logos and background sound excerpts you don't wanna see or hear. 

In most cases they simply start to play with *some* default format, probably not the one you want, and there's no way to set the player to default to a particular signal type the way an SACD player can be set to default to a layer. You have to stop playback, select the menus, select the signal, restart playback at the beginning (simply pressing play will typically restart where you stopped). 

Similarly, attaching an external DAC is often futile because the digital outs are forceably downsampled to 24/48 at best for copyright reasons. 

It's true that when you finally get to the playback, having switched off the TV you didn't want to switch on the first place, the sound quality of such discs, whether because of the higher resolution or superior mastering, does appear to be better than the same material on CD. But the hassle of getting to it...

In short, the combination of forced video navigation and forced use of limited quality internal DACs are likely to ruin the BD-audio experience (as it did the DVD-Audio one), and the utility of HFPA, or any other hires launch, depends on eliminating both from the outset. 

I have no confidence at all that the suits responsible understand either issue. 

 

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

mr malarky wrote:

davedotco wrote:

 

Mr Malarky,

Just stop and think for a moment here, selling you both the hi-res and the CD version of the disc is an excellent maketing gimmick and you are falling for it.

You should be demanding that the industry produces the best CDs possible, not buying premium priced product that they are able to sell to you because they could not be bothered to get the CD rightin the first place

I have 5 of their DVD-Audio discs and only paid about £15 for each album (though I see they are going for much more on Amazon now), and 3 of these were albums I didn't already own so didn't represent a 'repeat' purchase. For each one I have a CD to listen to in the car and a 5.1 channel mix to listen to in the lounge (which sounds fantastic, and is completely different listening experience to the CD). I'm not quite sure what it is I'm 'falling for', or where the down-side is?

 

Apologies, I have zero interest in movies or surround sound music and occasionally forget that other enthusiasts see things differently.

For 2 channel use I can see no reason to by both the DVD and the CD, unless of course the industry is deliberately compromising the SQ of CDs so that at some point down the line they can sell you a 'better' bversion of the music you have already bought and paid for.

 

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

bigboss wrote:

Overdose wrote:

Similarly, I've never seen an orchestra arranged around a concert hall and the audience, also as you say, the surround sound capability would only add an extra level of realism to the ambience of the venue and not give any better resolution.

So you don't think the extra level of realism will be of any benefit? I think surround sound HD format will sound pretty amazing, with better audio separation and spatial experience. 

Spot on! Beginning to look at DTS options now - there's something in this, certainly in terms of level of realism.

I'm afraid the stereoluddites are goin to be left behind.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

bigboss wrote:

Overdose wrote:

Similarly, I've never seen an orchestra arranged around a concert hall and the audience, also as you say, the surround sound capability would only add an extra level of realism to the ambience of the venue and not give any better resolution.

So you don't think the extra level of realism will be of any benefit? I think surround sound HD format will sound pretty amazing, with better audio separation and spatial experience.

The point I was trying to make was that in a normal concert situation there isn't really any "surround" effect, as the orchestra is all in front of you. I'm dubious of the idea that a surround format will add any spaciousness to the front channels.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

I think the extra features on the Blu-rays look good. Having video and pictures to go with the the music would be nice. I'm not really bothered about having 5.1 sound but it's nice to have the option.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

altruistic.lemon wrote:

bigboss wrote:

Overdose wrote:

Similarly, I've never seen an orchestra arranged around a concert hall and the audience, also as you say, the surround sound capability would only add an extra level of realism to the ambience of the venue and not give any better resolution.

So you don't think the extra level of realism will be of any benefit? I think surround sound HD format will sound pretty amazing, with better audio separation and spatial experience. 

Spot on! Beginning to look at DTS options now - there's something in this, certainly in terms of level of realism.

I'm afraid the stereoluddites are goin to be left behind.

What, you mean like DVD-Audio left us all behind? This has been tried before (probably with many of the same recordings I shouldn't wonder), the public isn't interested.

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

altruistic.lemon wrote:

I'm afraid the stereoluddites are goin to be left behind.

 

I don't have room for 5 speakers anyway. Just read a post on Steve Hoffman forum about 5.1 and it seems that most people prefer their music (pop/rock) in stereo anyway. There are a few good multichannel recordings like Pink Floyd's WYWH but many are flawed. Think I will save the cost of 3 speakers and carry on in stereo. 

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RE: Blu-ray High Definition Audio Discs - first thoughts

bigboss wrote:

Overdose wrote:

Similarly, I've never seen an orchestra arranged around a concert hall and the audience, also as you say, the surround sound capability would only add an extra level of realism to the ambience of the venue and not give any better resolution.

So you don't think the extra level of realism will be of any benefit? I think surround sound HD format will sound pretty amazing, with better audio separation and spatial experience. 

Not at all. The benefits of recreating a more realistic live environment are obvious, it's what has been done for a long time though, particularly in movies. The whole idea of surround sound is to recreate the illusion of actually being in a particular place, in this case a music hall or theatre.

The image shows musicians being recorded in a circle though and far from creating a higher level of realism, this type of recording would sound artificial, as you don't ever hear a live performance with musicians surrounding you.

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