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RE: Black Ravioli

Just a short postscript if I may - I have a friend who uses room tuning crystals, Shanti electromagnetic stabilisers, Harmonix feet, Cardas wood blocks to support his cables (they are rather thick and heavy )and all manner of doodads with his hifi, many of which some people  would classify as voodoo BS. He's what I would call the quintessential tweaker and is always on the lookout for new tweaks.

But is he delusional? Maybe. Frankly though, who cares? His wife certainly doesn't and neither does he. It's his money and his ears - even if there really isn't a sound quality improvement, as long as he believes it's money well spent, then who am I to tell him he's wasting his money (or not)?

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RE: Black Ravioli RE: Black Ravioli

chebby wrote:

What is this stuff  made of?

I have seen references to technology derived from nuclear submarines

Thats near enough correct , heard this first hand when the things first hit the muggit , whoops sorry market.

chebby wrote:

Or is there some actual technology going on?

Ha ha,nope not on yer life.

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RE: Black Ravioli

Singslinger wrote:

Just a short postscript if I may - I have a friend who uses room tuning crystals, Shanti electromagnetic stabilisers, Harmonix feet, Cardas wood blocks to support his cables (they are rather thick and heavy )and all manner of doodads with his hifi, many of which some people  would classify as voodoo BS. He's what I would call the quintessential tweaker and is always on the lookout for new tweaks.

But is he delusional? Maybe. Frankly though, who cares? His wife certainly doesn't and neither does he. It's his money and his ears - even if there really isn't a sound quality improvement, as long as he believes it's money well spent, then who am I to tell him he's wasting his money (or not)?

 

Although interestingly according to David's definition that guy is more into his music than someone who thinks all that stuff may be a bit silly, doesn't spend time researching, obtaining, comparing and discussing it, and listens to music through a straightforward system. Does everyone agree?

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RE: Black Ravioli

Do any of the "fundamentalists" here now anyone that's colour blind?  If you do, try telling that person that he/she can't see the view from the window any differently from you, because however you measure the light it's exactly the same for both of you.

We do not yet, and probably never will, fully understand the brain and the interestions between our senses.

"Inspired" Manticore Mantra TT, Technics SL-7 TT, Graham Slee Reflex M phono preamp.  Cyrus CD8SE.  iMac, Raspberry Pi c/w HiFiBerry Digi c/w Volumio or Rune Audio, Arcam rDAC.  Roksan Kandy LIII amp, Spendor A5 speakers.

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RE: Black Ravioli

BenLaw wrote:

Singslinger wrote:

Just a short postscript if I may - I have a friend who uses room tuning crystals, Shanti electromagnetic stabilisers, Harmonix feet, Cardas wood blocks to support his cables (they are rather thick and heavy )and all manner of doodads with his hifi, many of which some people  would classify as voodoo BS. He's what I would call the quintessential tweaker and is always on the lookout for new tweaks.

But is he delusional? Maybe. Frankly though, who cares? His wife certainly doesn't and neither does he. It's his money and his ears - even if there really isn't a sound quality improvement, as long as he believes it's money well spent, then who am I to tell him he's wasting his money (or not)?

 

Although interestingly according to David's definition that guy is more into his music than someone who thinks all that stuff may be a bit silly, doesn't spend time researching, obtaining, comparing and discussing it, and listens to music through a straightforward system. Does everyone agree?

Smile   He sounds like he's all about the music.  Dance 4

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RE: Black Ravioli

jcbrum wrote:

Note to mods :  I make no derogatory assessment of andyjm here.   The essence of the discussion is whether the dubious claims for the function of these products is merely an effect created by the promotional assertions, in the minds of susceptible people.  -  JC

Note to mods: I am not in the least bit offended by JC.

JC,

I have told this story before, so apologies to anyone who has read this.

My first job when I graduated was in the research and designs group of a well known national broadcaster. I worked in a group specialising in recording equipment design - video and audio.  The group in the lab next to mine were responsible for speaker design, although many of the team had moved on, there were some left from the design of the LS3/5A and LS5/9. Knowing I was keen on HiFi they invited me in to their evaluation room to audition some of the speakers. 

They demonstrated a number of development versions of the LS3/5, explaing the problems in the sound in each and how they were able to overcome the problem in the next design. I followed their comments, and I could clearly hear each of the problems, and how the problem was corrected in the later version. Except they never changed the speaker, it was the same one for each of the demonstrations.

I remember the lesson to this day.  The power of suggestion and the bias that comes from expectation dwarfes any perception ability you may have. I haven't designed audio equipment for 20 years, but I try to stay current. The rise of the cult of the speaker cable and mains conditioner offends my engineering bones, but I fully understand why people are convinced they improve the sound they perceive. Its not that they are gullible, its just that's the way people's brains are wired. The morality of those who sell these products is a different question, but perhaps they believe they work as well.

 

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RE: Black Ravioli

You are very gracious, Andy.  Thank-you.  -  JC

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RE: Black Ravioli

BenLaw wrote:

Singslinger wrote:

Just a short postscript if I may - I have a friend who uses room tuning crystals, Shanti electromagnetic stabilisers, Harmonix feet, Cardas wood blocks to support his cables (they are rather thick and heavy )and all manner of doodads with his hifi, many of which some people  would classify as voodoo BS. He's what I would call the quintessential tweaker and is always on the lookout for new tweaks.

But is he delusional? Maybe. Frankly though, who cares? His wife certainly doesn't and neither does he. It's his money and his ears - even if there really isn't a sound quality improvement, as long as he believes it's money well spent, then who am I to tell him he's wasting his money (or not)?

 

Although interestingly according to David's definition that guy is more into his music than someone who thinks all that stuff may be a bit silly, doesn't spend time researching, obtaining, comparing and discussing it, and listens to music through a straightforward system. Does everyone agree?

A criticsm often levied at "tweakers" (by the objectivists), is that they are more interested in messing about with their system than listening to the music.....so I read David's post as confirming that it's possible to be a tweaker and a music lover; rather than insinuating (because he did not make the remark directly) that the other group were not into their music to the same degree.

Anyway, I'm sure he will confirm what he meant.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Black Ravioli

ifor wrote:

Do any of the "fundamentalists" here now anyone that's colour blind?  If you do, try telling that person that he/she can't see the view from the window any differently from you, because however you measure the light it's exactly the same for both of you.

We do not yet, and probably never will, fully understand the brain and the interestions between our senses.

Personally speaking if anyone can provided evidence using  properly conducted reproducible double blind tests that magic beads make a difference to the sound then I am happy to accept that some physical interaction we do not currently understand is taking place. Until then, if it looks like snake oil and tastes like snake oil then  it is snake oil. If you want to buy it nobody is stopping you.
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RE: Black Ravioli

ifor wrote:

Do any of the "fundamentalists" here now anyone that's colour blind?  If you do, try telling that person that he/she can't see the view from the window any differently from you, because however you measure the light it's exactly the same for both of you.

We do not yet, and probably never will, fully understand the brain and the interestions between our senses.

I really want to edit out my typos, but the edit function seems to have disappeared.

"Inspired" Manticore Mantra TT, Technics SL-7 TT, Graham Slee Reflex M phono preamp.  Cyrus CD8SE.  iMac, Raspberry Pi c/w HiFiBerry Digi c/w Volumio or Rune Audio, Arcam rDAC.  Roksan Kandy LIII amp, Spendor A5 speakers.

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RE: Black Ravioli

hammill wrote:

Until then, if it looks like snake oil and tastes like snake oil then  it is snake oil. If you want to buy it nobody is stopping you.

But who's to say that 'we' see and taste snake oil the same way.  The brain is an amazing thing.

Back to the original point though, yes, ASA were quite right in their judgement because objective claims were being made that cannot be objectively substantiated.  This shouldn't stop BR advertising effectively so long as they don't make such claims.

"Inspired" Manticore Mantra TT, Technics SL-7 TT, Graham Slee Reflex M phono preamp.  Cyrus CD8SE.  iMac, Raspberry Pi c/w HiFiBerry Digi c/w Volumio or Rune Audio, Arcam rDAC.  Roksan Kandy LIII amp, Spendor A5 speakers.

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RE: Black Ravioli

ifor wrote:
I really want to edit out my typos, but the edit function seems to have disappeared.

You can't edit a post once it's been replied to.

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RE: Black Ravioli

ifor wrote:

But who's to say that 'we' see and taste snake oil the same way.  The brain is an amazing thing.

I agree completely  - I will never know if when I see the colour blue it is the same as when you see the colour blue. I am also perfectly happy to accept that other people can see/hear things i can't, but it should be reproducible that they can if it is being advertised

Quote:

Back to the original point though, yes, ASA were quite right in their judgement because objective claims were being made that cannot be objectively substantiated.  This shouldn't stop BR advertising effectively so lon as they don't make such claims.

Again, I agree.
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RE: Black Ravioli

I own 16 of the basic BR pads, they go under my CDP, my Pre, and my monoblocks.

For me they made a clear difference in a good way.

I don't even really care how they work. I do not open up my loudspeakers to see how they work either! 

I also remember the last thread, and second that steve 1979 should do another test with the pads on the chassis.

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RE: Black Ravioli

CnoEvil wrote:

BenLaw wrote:

Singslinger wrote:

Just a short postscript if I may - I have a friend who uses room tuning crystals, Shanti electromagnetic stabilisers, Harmonix feet, Cardas wood blocks to support his cables (they are rather thick and heavy )and all manner of doodads with his hifi, many of which some people  would classify as voodoo BS. He's what I would call the quintessential tweaker and is always on the lookout for new tweaks.

But is he delusional? Maybe. Frankly though, who cares? His wife certainly doesn't and neither does he. It's his money and his ears - even if there really isn't a sound quality improvement, as long as he believes it's money well spent, then who am I to tell him he's wasting his money (or not)?

 

Although interestingly according to David's definition that guy is more into his music than someone who thinks all that stuff may be a bit silly, doesn't spend time researching, obtaining, comparing and discussing it, and listens to music through a straightforward system. Does everyone agree?

A criticsm often levied at "tweakers" (by the objectivists), is that they are more interested in messing about with their system than listening to the music.....so I read David's post as confirming that it's possible to be a tweaker and a music lover; rather than insinuating (because he did not make the remark directly) that the other group were not into their music to the same degree.

Anyway, I'm sure he will confirm what he meant.

 

David said 'The second group are those genuinely into music and hi-fi'. No insinuation, he's been very direct and divisive. 

 

On this forum, I read the accusation that way round far more often than the other way round. 

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