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RE: BI-WIRE Doubt [ROTEL RA-12 + KEF Q300]

Baldrick1 wrote:

lpv wrote:

taitai wrote:

Hi Rene

Don't want to highjack the thread but wanted to hear your opinion on the combination of the Rotel RA-12 and the KEF Q300.

Exactly the components I am about to buy and was worried that the Kef will sound a bit dry with the Rotel,

Thanks

Mel

 

Indeed. It will sounds 'dry'... at least compared to Marantz amplification which sounds 'juicy'.. comment from former Rotel RA-11 user.

Not sure what is meant by 'dry' and 'juicy'.  I would characterise the sound as 'detailed & accurate' and therefore what some might call 'bright'.

I've put back Rotel to the box after playing some Alice in Chains and grunge... there's no way to get Rotel bass and treble to the Marantz's level.. plus, there's no joy to listen Rotel on low volume levels... Marantz is also detailed & acurate and not dark.. impressive soundstage.. more depth than Rotel, that's probably why I agreed on dry... 

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RE: BI-WIRE Doubt [ROTEL RA-12 + KEF Q300]

lpv wrote:

I've put back Rotel to the box after playing some Alice in Chains and grunge... there's no way to get Rotel bass and treble to the Marantz's level.. plus, there's no joy to listen Rotel on low volume levels... Marantz is also detailed & acurate and not dark.. impressive soundstage.. more depth than Rotel, that's probably why I agreed on dry... 

I think that it is all in the ears as I personally have no need to tinker with the bass or treble settings on the RA-11, and as for it on low volume levels it is extremely detailed and accurate with a great sound stage, especially through the Q300s.  Music to my ears.

Just goes to show that one has to audition.

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RE: BI-WIRE Doubt [ROTEL RA-12 + KEF Q300]

ISAC69 wrote:

Bi wiring is no more than voodoo you hardly will notice any difference ( Bi amplifying is another story ) each speaker will receive 60W and it dosn't matter if bi-wiring or not .

the Ohm limitations is only for safe precautions if you are not breaking the  volume to very high levels on constant operatinion ( unless you are a D.J. ! )  nothing will happen .

 

 

 

Thanks for the answer! (by the way, how can I receive the replies on my email? that's why I tool so long to answer here)

Can you brief me about Bi-Amplifying then? because I'm pretty sure ROTEL RA-12 can do it... it has 4 pairs of connectors, I mean, I can use in my Left speaker the output "left A" + "left B", and same thing on my right speaker (right a + right B), so every speaker has 2 amplifyied channels at the same time!

Is this worthed?

When I say "bi-wired" I totally misused the "sense"...

thank you!

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RE: BI-WIRE Doubt [ROTEL RA-12 + KEF Q300]

Reggie Mental wrote:

Just use a single run of decent (4mm or more) copper stranded cable and leave the brass links in place. Bi-wire is a nonsense. Kef thinks so too, they've abandoned it on the LS50.

 

Yes, I believe so, but I really meant "bi-amplifying" the Q300's, not bi-wiring. By the way, I had a listen on the LS50's, I can ensure that the extra budget to get them, won't give you SUCH extra improovement in sound.

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RE: BI-WIRE Doubt [ROTEL RA-12 + KEF Q300]

Bodfish wrote:

OK, I'll have a go.

On the links and the speaker impedance; not overall, don't worry about it.

A and B outputs have been features on amps for a long time (and before bi-wiring became fashionable). Historically, they were used for running two sets of stereo speakers (say one set in the lounge and another in the dining room). In that situation, the amp would see the load on each speaker, hence the suggestion not to go below a nominal load of eight ohms which is an easier load for the amp to drive.

If you want to bi-wire, you do not have to use A and B outputs. You can just use A and have what is sometimes called a 'shotgun' connection where you have two connections at the amp end and four at the speaker end. You can also use A and B together if you want and have four connectors at both ends of your cable.

Whichever way you do it, you will only ever get the rated power from your amp ie 60w. And you cannot bi-amp with an integrated amp. To bi-amp, you need four channels of amplification, eg an integrated amp and a power amp, a pre amp and two stereo power amps or a pre amp and four single channel power amps (commonly called mono blocs).

FWIW i prefer to spend my budget on a 'better' run of cable and single wire the speakers.

 

Hi Bodfish, thanks for your answer!

Well, I think ROTEL RA-12 has 4 channels, it has 2 left channels and 2 right channels... take a look on its backpannel http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb452/solomusica2008/RotelRA12REAR.jpg

Am I right?

If I choose in the frontpanel speakers "A+B" ALL the 8 outputs will be working, then... and since it says 60w/ch, I believe no matter what speaker selected, I'll have 60W in each output... it's kinda confusing!

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RE: BI-WIRE Doubt [ROTEL RA-12 + KEF Q300]

Thompsonuxb wrote:

Just try all options available to you and see which sounds best in your opinion.

try the single run with brass connector in place play a well produced track then compare it to a bi-wired config, using A+B speaker outs. you will need the extra run of cable but you may find the out lay is worth it.

I always run the A+B option myself - to my ears the sound is better seperated and cleaner, noticed more with complex tunes at higher levels, but some will swear blind there is no difference - depends on your kit , maybe.

Let us know your findings.

 

Thank you, Thompson!

well, if I choose A+B speakers, I need to run one pair of cables more, because my integrated the way I installed now is single wired, using "SPEAKER A" left channel for my left speaker, and "SPEAKER A" right channel for my right speaker... I may try bi-amping them, but I need to be sure on how to do this so I do not damage my speakers, or my rotel. (that's why I asked about impedance)

Check out the backpanel of my rotel: http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb452/solomusica2008/RotelRA12REAR.jpg (it has 4 reds and 4 black plugs)

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RE: BI-WIRE Doubt [ROTEL RA-12 + KEF Q300]

taitai wrote:

Hi Rene

Don't want to highjack the thread but wanted to hear your opinion on the combination of the Rotel RA-12 and the KEF Q300.

Exactly the components I am about to buy and was worried that the Kef will sound a bit dry with the Rotel,

Thanks

Mel

 

 

Hi Taitai!

Feel free, man! Smile

Man, I got really happy listening this combination, and that made me buy them. I was looking for ROTEL RA-12 to amp the B&W 685's. I felt that the KEF Q300's sounded much more robust and the voice is very clear, very defined. I found 685's too much bright and they surely would made me feel tired listening something for more than 30 minutes.. would make my ears to be tired. Not to mention that the bass of the KEF's got my taste, they are well contained and deeper than the 685.

Feel free to ask more about this, if you think I didn't answer you properly!

Regards,

 

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RE: BI-WIRE Doubt [ROTEL RA-12 + KEF Q300]

ReneUhlver wrote:

Bodfish wrote:

OK, I'll have a go.

On the links and the speaker impedance; not overall, don't worry about it.

A and B outputs have been features on amps for a long time (and before bi-wiring became fashionable). Historically, they were used for running two sets of stereo speakers (say one set in the lounge and another in the dining room). In that situation, the amp would see the load on each speaker, hence the suggestion not to go below a nominal load of eight ohms which is an easier load for the amp to drive.

If you want to bi-wire, you do not have to use A and B outputs. You can just use A and have what is sometimes called a 'shotgun' connection where you have two connections at the amp end and four at the speaker end. You can also use A and B together if you want and have four connectors at both ends of your cable.

Whichever way you do it, you will only ever get the rated power from your amp ie 60w. And you cannot bi-amp with an integrated amp. To bi-amp, you need four channels of amplification, eg an integrated amp and a power amp, a pre amp and two stereo power amps or a pre amp and four single channel power amps (commonly called mono blocs).

FWIW i prefer to spend my budget on a 'better' run of cable and single wire the speakers.

 

Hi Bodfish, thanks for your answer!

Well, I think ROTEL RA-12 has 4 channels, it has 2 left channels and 2 right channels... take a look on its backpannel http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb452/solomusica2008/RotelRA12REAR.jpg

Am I right?

If I choose in the frontpanel speakers "A+B" ALL the 8 outputs will be working, then... and since it says 60w/ch, I believe no matter what speaker selected, I'll have 60W in each output... it's kinda confusing!

nope, not quite. The Rotel has one left and one right channel only. The a and b speaker outlets are 'joined' for want of a better term. There are are only two output stages in the circuit and not four.

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RE: BI-WIRE Doubt [ROTEL RA-12 + KEF Q300]

I've never found the rotel ra 12 with b&w 685 to be overly bright or dry, you would be suprised that this rotel amp is warmer than some think.

 

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