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bi-amping

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sonic21's picture
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hi guys,

im a newbie in this forum, am gald to be in this wonderful forum!

i will be bi-amping my speakers, so getting an additional power amp soon. read an article on this website http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm#summary

quote:<"There is one area where you may find that changing to a biamped system cases an apparent loss of bass response. This is rare, but in some cases the cabinet design may have been optimised for the woofer, including the resistance of the series inductor in the passive crossover. This is especially true for very well designed ported boxes. The result is that a biamped system is slightly over-damped by comparison, resulting in a loss of bass response.">

now im worried if the issue of loss of bass response will occur in my case. im using roksan kandy k2 intergrated amp with b&w 684 speakers.will add the kandy k2 power amp which will drive the LF. i have ordered the power amp which will be arriving hopefully by end of the month. i could not audition it cause there is no demo set at my local dealer. the other thing i read in another article that i need an electronic crossover or not it wouldnt be real biamping?i thought it would be just a simple connection were from the intergated amp to the HF speaker terminal would use 1 speaker cable and from the power amp to the LF speaker terminal would use 1 speaker cable. for the interconnects from intergrated amp's pre out to the power amp's input. that's it...my question is would i have loss of bass? do i need an electronic crossover? what other setups i have to do besides the above mentioned?sorry if my explanation is not clear. be grateful if anybody could answer me.

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audio room: roksan kandy k2 intergrated amp, roksan kandy K2 power amplifier, roksan kandy k2 cdp, musical fidelity M1 dac, b&w 684 spks, airport express, macbook pro, chord chameleon vee3, chord cobra vee3, chord odyssey 2, wireworld supernova 6, ms conditioner.

HT room: optoma hd-87, pioneer SC-LX85, oppo bdp-95, PS3, PSB image T6, T5, C5, B4. PSB sub-series 300 x 2, wireworld chroma 7, QED revelation, QED silver anniversary XT, soundstage conditioner.

abacus's picture
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Joined: 24 Sep 2008
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RE: bi-amping

If your speaker has links on the back (Connecting the bass & treble together) then it is designed for bi-amping (Just remember to remove the links)  so go ahead.

It’s probable that more control of the bass will occur when bi-amping , however this will not decrease the bass just give you a more controlled bass.

The only time you would need an electronic crossover is if you removed the crossover in the speaker itself.

Hope this helps

Bill

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RE: bi-amping

+1 what Bill said.

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sonic21's picture
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Joined: 23 Oct 2013
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RE: bi-amping

abacus wrote:

If your speaker has links on the back (Connecting the bass & treble together) then it is designed for bi-amping (Just remember to remove the links)  so go ahead.

It’s probable that more control of the bass will occur when bi-amping , however this will not decrease the bass just give you a more controlled bass.

The only time you would need an electronic crossover is if you removed the crossover in the speaker itself.

Hope this helps

Bill

what a relief! yes i will be removing the links/jumpers. thanks for your help Bill. great forum with fast response. 

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audio room: roksan kandy k2 intergrated amp, roksan kandy K2 power amplifier, roksan kandy k2 cdp, musical fidelity M1 dac, b&w 684 spks, airport express, macbook pro, chord chameleon vee3, chord cobra vee3, chord odyssey 2, wireworld supernova 6, ms conditioner.

HT room: optoma hd-87, pioneer SC-LX85, oppo bdp-95, PS3, PSB image T6, T5, C5, B4. PSB sub-series 300 x 2, wireworld chroma 7, QED revelation, QED silver anniversary XT, soundstage conditioner.

Aled Clayton's picture
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I also found biamping gives a

I also found biamping gives a dramatic improvement in dynamics and soundstage- as each amp has less load, the burden is shared.

does make an amazing difference, at least with my setup which is fairly low cost.

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Singslinger's picture
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RE: I also found biamping gives a

Aled Clayton wrote:
I also found biamping gives a dramatic improvement in dynamics and soundstage- as each amp has less load, the burden is shared. does make an amazing difference, at least with my setup which is fairly low cost.

Yes me too. I'm running a biamped system as well and have found a vast improvement in clarity, punch and dynamics.

Big Chris's picture
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All I can do is echo the

All I can do is echo the comments above.

Bi-amping made a marked improvement for me.

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davedotco's picture
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RE: All I can do is echo the

I am totally in the other camp.

I can understand the appeal of just adding a power amplifier to an existing setup, looks like a simple and effective upgrade but I have never really found it value for money.

This is particularly true where the existing amps are of modest quality, so although it is a lot more upheaval, my view is just buy a better amplifier.

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We do so many shows in a row,

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We just pass the time in our hotel room

And wander 'round backstage,

Till the lights come up, and we hear that crowd,

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sonic21's picture
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RE: bi-amping

i hope for the dramatic change to as ive read a few articles and its worth it. offcourse different people have different opinons and i respect that. i got this power amp at a good offer and buying a new better amp would cost more, over my budget. besides i still love this roksan amp cause its easy to match and its all-rounder. i listen to many genre's of music.

tks for giving me the positive comments guys! looking forward to bi-amping.

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audio room: roksan kandy k2 intergrated amp, roksan kandy K2 power amplifier, roksan kandy k2 cdp, musical fidelity M1 dac, b&w 684 spks, airport express, macbook pro, chord chameleon vee3, chord cobra vee3, chord odyssey 2, wireworld supernova 6, ms conditioner.

HT room: optoma hd-87, pioneer SC-LX85, oppo bdp-95, PS3, PSB image T6, T5, C5, B4. PSB sub-series 300 x 2, wireworld chroma 7, QED revelation, QED silver anniversary XT, soundstage conditioner.

Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 2358
RE: bi-amping

I found biamping of no benefit. My system. My room. Most importantly my ears. So ....... unless u are me, I would ignore my post.  Smile

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RE: All I can do is echo the

davedotco wrote:

I am totally in the other camp.

I can understand the appeal of just adding a power amplifier to an existing setup, looks like a simple and effective upgrade but I have never really found it value for money.

This is particularly true where the existing amps are of modest quality, so although it is a lot more upheaval, my view is just buy a better amplifier.

Like Big Chris I have an Onkyo 875, which enables you to Bi-amp the front speakers at no extra cost (apart from a bit of cable). I did this on the advice of the sainted Mr Everard and I thought it sounded better. You may well be right that if you have to buy another amp it is not cost effective.

Joined: 27 May 2009
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RE: bi-amping

RobinKidderminster wrote:

I found biamping of no benefit. My system. My room. Most importantly my ears. So ....... unless u are me, I would ignore my post.  Smile

As a slight aside - maybe my biamping 'negative' impression was partly to do with the av receiver too. Biamping a stereo amp may be an entirely different game of marbles?

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System Photos - http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/robinkidderminster/library/?sort=3&page=1

 Base trap Project -  http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/corner-base-trap-completed-project?page=1

davedotco's picture
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RE: bi-amping

RobinKidderminster wrote:

RobinKidderminster wrote:

I found biamping of no benefit. My system. My room. Most importantly my ears. So ....... unless u are me, I would ignore my post.  Smile

As a slight aside - maybe my biamping 'negative' impression was partly to do with the av receiver too. Biamping a stereo amp may be an entirely different game of marbles?

Er, no its not. 

You may get a slight improvement, though in many cases not but in any case it does not come close to justifying the cost. This is of course my opinion and other views are available but I have done this dem many dozens of times and stuggled to make the change worthwhile.

 

The A/V reciever point is an interesting one. The idea that, in a 2 channel system you get the extra channels (to bi-amp) for free is a fallacy. 

In all one box recievers that I have seen the power amplifiers all share the same power supply and in some cases (though not all) not a particularly potent one. Splitting the power supply in this way could lead to a reduction of power, and more importantly headroom on the amplifiers that are doing the vast bulk of the 'work', ie the bass amplifiers and this could easily negate any advantage gained by bi-amping.

Some interesting experiments to be done there, sometimes I hate not being a dealer anymore........ banging head against wall

__________________

We do so many shows in a row,

And these towns all look the same,

We just pass the time in our hotel room

And wander 'round backstage,

Till the lights come up, and we hear that crowd,

And we remember why we came.

Jackson Browne

Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 2358
RE: bi-amping

All in one box receiver? Mine came in one box  Smile Point taken tho - all this confirms.the reason my biamping was not beneficial.

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Mordaunt Short Mezzo System C - 8,5,1,9.Yamaha V2065. SonyS570. Panasonic TX-P42G20B., Sky HD 1TB. Garrard 86SB. PF30. Wii. WDTV Live. Harmony One. STAX300. QED cabling. Galaxy Tab 10.1

System Photos - http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/robinkidderminster/library/?sort=3&page=1

 Base trap Project -  http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/corner-base-trap-completed-project?page=1

El Hefe's picture
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RE: bi-amping

sonic21,

As far as I can remember, I have always bi-amped my speakers. In fact, I put this as one of the criteria when choosing a pair of new speakers. I personally find that adding a matching power amp gives a big step up in bass control. It is however always being debated whether bi-amp doesgive any improvement.

I do suggest for you to also do a 'reverse' trial. Meaning...hook up the power amp to biamp.....listen to it for a period of time.... its OK if you didnt hear any changes.... then un-hook the power amp and go back to a non-biamp set up and see whether you had 'lost' any musicality from the bi-amp trial period. 

Bottom line...if you benefit from bi-amp...stick to it.... if not ...there is always ebay Smile

 

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sonic21's picture
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Joined: 23 Oct 2013
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RE: bi-amping

El Hefe wrote:

sonic21,

As far as I can remember, I have always bi-amped my speakers. In fact, I put this as one of the criteria when choosing a pair of new speakers. I personally find that adding a matching power amp gives a big step up in bass control. It is however always being debated whether bi-amp doesgive any improvement.

I do suggest for you to also do a 'reverse' trial. Meaning...hook up the power amp to biamp.....listen to it for a period of time.... its OK if you didnt hear any changes.... then un-hook the power amp and go back to a non-biamp set up and see whether you had 'lost' any musicality from the bi-amp trial period. 

Bottom line...if you benefit from bi-amp...stick to it.... if not ...there is always ebay Smile

 

i will have that trial, thanks for the idea El Hefe.

__________________

audio room: roksan kandy k2 intergrated amp, roksan kandy K2 power amplifier, roksan kandy k2 cdp, musical fidelity M1 dac, b&w 684 spks, airport express, macbook pro, chord chameleon vee3, chord cobra vee3, chord odyssey 2, wireworld supernova 6, ms conditioner.

HT room: optoma hd-87, pioneer SC-LX85, oppo bdp-95, PS3, PSB image T6, T5, C5, B4. PSB sub-series 300 x 2, wireworld chroma 7, QED revelation, QED silver anniversary XT, soundstage conditioner.