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Better mastered music could be on the way!

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Native_bon's picture
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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

shooter wrote:

32 bit is the norm for studio work, it allows head room for editing without adding noise (quantisation) whilst the work is done.

 

Afterwards its mixed down to whatever bit rate file/disc is required, either 24 bit  or 16 bit with 24 bit having less noise or higher S/N.

Dnt even go into 32bit float, cause u will just get so many even more confused.. Phew!!. I THNIK SOMETIMES ITS JUST BETTER TO LISTEN & LOOK AS THE STORM GOES ON.

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RE: Better mastered music

jcbrum wrote:

I think we must all remember that the important thing (and the underlying message of this thread) is to avoid the awful audio compression which is ruining much of the newer music releases.

 

Audio compression on recordings, is used to reduce their dynamic range and make them sound louder.  It's nothing to do with digital file compression which is used to make digital file sizes smaller.

There is no correlation between the two processes.

 

Perceived audio quality depends on an expert master recording, and has little to do with what bit-rate, or sampling rate, is used for the distribution version.

These facts have been clearly identified during the discussions of this topic, on this forum and others, and seem to be generally agreed by those with a technical understanding of these issues.

 

I do feel that Linn could help the cause by changing their sales techniques and information.  There is no doubt that they provide some excellent quality recordings, but they are not helping by implying that high bit rate alone determines audio quality in the consumers' hands.

I have no doubt that Linn are competent to understand the issues, and they should take a lead in this case, and not allow themseles to be criticised because of poor marketing and sales information.

 

Just because a file is 24/192 format does not follow it must be 'high audio quality', it might be the most horribly compressed, poorly recorded, effort ever made, but sold at a high price as a premium product simply on the claim of '24bit'.

 

JC

Most sensable post on the whole thread.  Most acurrate description of mastering music good job

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RE: Better mastered music

the record spot wrote:

relocated wrote:

WinterRacer wrote:

Mirren Boy wrote:
Maybe I should have explained in more detail. Of course there was no digital recordings back then. What was meant  ? Don’t think there was even a 24channel mixing desk back then which equates to the official recording being mastered today for 24bit. Hope that’s better for you.

I think you're getting the number of channels on the mixing desk confused with number of bits when encoding samples; they have nothing to do with one another.

 

Mirren Boy,

You clearly really don't know what you are talking about.  Please do everyone, ESPECIALLY YOURSELF, a favour and bow out of this.  You are, sadly,  making a fool of yourself.

 

I suppose relocation wouldn't be something you'd consider Relocated?  Leave the guy alone.  One thing not to know about the finer points of an obscure topic 99%+ of us have little idea about in detail, another thing to show off our own lack of class.  Live and learn.

Record Spot,

Thank you for your contribution.  I do "live and learn" and if you ever become the arbiter of class then we all have a serious problem.

Learning is particularly difficult when some ill-informed, but noisy people, keep bleating on.  If you have followed the whole of this thread, as I have, you would know that Mirren has been praising 24bit downloads and bagging out people, who actually know what they are talking about, from a position of clear ignorance.  I have continued with this thread so that I can better understand about recording and replay in the digital domain and the apparent mismarketing of certain products.  I am much wiser now than when I started.  I have not been helped by anything Mirren Boy has had to say, or you for that matter.

"Leave the guy alone".  If there were a way of messaging someone on here then I would have conveyed my message that way.  As far as I know there isn't,  so my appeal to him to stop making a fool of himself had to be done in the thread.

 But congratulations for bringing the matter front and centre again,  when it could have slept where it first lay.

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RE: Better mastered music

Like I say, lack of class...you could have phrased your original comments to Mirren Boy better, so bleating on about the whys and wherefores of your earlier post is neither here nor there.  You should just apologise to him for your ill mannered approach, then you'd get more credit for that than anything else you've put in here..

 

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RE: Better mastered music

Native_bon wrote:

Most sensable post on the whole thread. 

Hey I made some darn sensible posts too  :exmark:

 

Wink Tongue

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RE: Better mastered music

the record spot wrote:

Like I say, lack of class...you could have phrased your original comments to Mirren Boy better, so bleating on about the whys and wherefores of your earlier post is neither here nor there.  You should just apologise to him for your ill mannered approach, then you'd get more credit for that than anything else you've put in here..

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Matthew 7:3

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

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RE: Better mastered music

Wouldn;t it just have been easier to make a point without the overtly showy Biblical quote?  Are we going to have a little competition?  Who can quote most passages out the Bible?  Life, it's just too short....but if you do want to show-off about it, here's one for you:-

 

"For the sin of their mouths, the words of their lips, let them be trapped in their pride. For the cursing and lies that they utter..."

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RE: Better mastered music RE: Better mastered music

Native_bon wrote:
Most sensable post on the whole thread.  Most acurrate description of mastering music good job

+1

It's worth paying close attention to all of jcbrum's posts in this thread. The guy really knows his stuff. read this

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RE: Better mastered music RE: Better mastered music

I'd also point interested parties over to the Steve Hoffman forum.  Guys like Barry Diament occasionally chime in with their mastering expertise, likewise the host himself.  Found that site back in 2006 I think, maybe 2007.  Invaluable resource for anyone interested in mastering.

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

An interesting take ok all this "Bit" discussion from a studio engineer.

http://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-cds-sound-great.htm

Now Ken Rockwell is pretty outspoken and as we know from experience people like him that go against the grain of traditional Hi-Fi beliefs aren't that well received (his piece on "What is an Audiophile?" will wind up many as well but has a lot of truth in it!).

 

I know Mr Rockwell's site from the photography side where his views are equally taken with credibility and disdain as well. While guys like him can upset many, their opinion they can also be useful in encouraging a reality-check and offering perspective outside the closed community of hobbyist forums.

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

Ken Rockwell wrote:
 An audiophile will waste days comparing the sound of power cords or different kinds of solder, but won't even notice that his speakers are out-of-phase.

 

Interesting that this has been linked to now when this precise point has just been illustrated on the forum. Get the best speakers for you, decent amplification and good red book recordings and enjoy the music  Smile

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

BenLaw wrote:

Ken Rockwell wrote:
 An audiophile will waste days comparing the sound of power cords or different kinds of solder, but won't even notice that his speakers are out-of-phase.

 

Interesting that this has been linked to now when this precise point has just been illustrated on the forum. Get the best speakers for you, decent amplification and good red book recordings and enjoy the music  Smile

 

I know, I only pop in occasionally lately! Sorry! Laughing out loud

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

AEJim wrote:

Now Ken Rockwell is pretty outspoken and as we know from experience people like him that go against the grain of traditional Hi-Fi beliefs aren't that well received (his piece on "What is an Audiophile?" will wind up many as well but has a lot of truth in it!).

I enjoyed reading this link, though while making some incisive and valid points, it is a little "black and white".

Growing up with musical parents and playing an instrument (badly), means that for me (though some may question it), it is all about the music....which is why I love going to live classical concerts.

In my case, something makes it into my system only if it enhances the enjoyment....so (the right) equipment is purely a means to an end for maximizing enjoyment; cables and various tweakery (for me) is about maximizing the system (ie. not about getting a thrill from the hunt). Once I have got it right, it can often stay unchanged for years (20 years in the case of my previous 2 channel system).

In other words, the two notions "needn't" be mutually exclusive.

One of the benefits of my current convalescence is that I'm now listening to much more music on a daily basis.

Sorry for the side track.

Cno

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

CnoEvil wrote:

AEJim wrote:

Now Ken Rockwell is pretty outspoken and as we know from experience people like him that go against the grain of traditional Hi-Fi beliefs aren't that well received (his piece on "What is an Audiophile?" will wind up many as well but has a lot of truth in it!).

I enjoyed reading this link, though while making some incisive and valid points, it is a little "black and white".

Growing up with musical parents and playing an instrument (badly), means that for me (though some may question it), it is all about the music....which is why I love going to live classical concerts.

In my case, something makes it into my system only if it enhances the enjoyment....so (the right) equipment is purely a means to an end for maximizing enjoyment; cables and various tweakery (for me) is about maximizing the system (ie. not about getting a thrill from the hunt). Once I have got it right, it can often stay unchanged for years (20 years in the case of my previous 2 channel system).

In other words, the two notions "needn't" be mutually exclusive.

One of the benefits of my current convalescence is that I'm now listening to much more music on a daily basis.

Sorry for the side track.

Cno

 

I agree Cno, it's the problem with anyone who argues a point too strongly without being open to other opinions (no matter how right or wrong they may be), they come accross as brash and diminish their own points.

Like you I tend to stick with a system I'm happy with and enjoy the music - that said there is some music that sounds so badly mastered it puts you off, I think Bon Jovi's "New Jersey" CD is one that stands out to me from memory - and I remember that from buying it new in my youth so it must have been poor! Some systems can help or hinder such recordings but as Mr Rockwell points out there's a certainly a point where "enthusiasts" go just a little too far at times! Smile

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

AEJim wrote:

Like you I tend to stick with a system I'm happy with and enjoy the music - that said there is some music that sounds so badly mastered it puts you off, I think Bon Jovi's "New Jersey" CD is one that stands out to me from memory - and I remember that from buying it new in my youth so it must have been poor! 

I totally agree that music can be "ruined" by poor mastering, more than it can (possibly) be "improved" by 24 bit...so that is where the priority needs to be.

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