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Better mastered music could be on the way!

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Mirren Boy's picture
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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

manicm wrote:

Mirren Boy wrote:

manicm wrote:

Overdose wrote:

manicm wrote:

Mirren Boy wrote:

 

I’m not pretending I know everything about computers I don’t. Your original post stated about runs and runs of cables. What I should have wrote is I don’t have runs and runs of cables. A router is used not a direct cable from the computer to the DS. That’s what I am trying to get across. Finally it was the one thing I made sure of, sound quality as I was skeptical of a router compared to a cable. There was no need to be worried the router worked just as well. Anyway we are going off topic are we not.

 

The jury is only out in streamers if you don’t have one. Streamers is the future just like the car once was. Don’t worry you will catch on one day. 

Oh I get it, cars need endless roads (the good ones anyway), streamers need endless lengths of ethernet cable (the good ones anyway).

Bite me when the word 'convenience' crops up somewhere.

Streamers are not the future, they are the now. Every man and his dog are making them, before that streaming from computers.

Endless ethernet cables? Wake up and realise the convenience of wireless.

Snap, Grrrrr!!!!

No, I won't wake up and realise the convenience of wireless because both Linn and Naim propogate the use of wired ethernet to get the best out of their devices. The former does not even allow wifi directly. And to my knowledge neither does the Marantz streamer.

Woof woof.

When you become a Linn dealer you regularly go to the Linn factory for training. When you go to a Linn dealer they fit the system into your home, reason for the training.  I can assure you there is no way I would have spent over 20,000 on the system to get an inferior sound. My only concern before purchase was what the sound difference would be not using earthnet. The dealer did a  back to back audition one with earthnet and one wifi , result no loss in sound quality. Ok so purchased the system. Yet again no doubt you will know better than me as I am a user and you are not bit like the Linn changing sound band widths which have now been proved is not the case which I pointed out half a dozen pages back which you also argued they did.

Mirrenboy, you did not get the gist of my post. Linn DS, unlike Naim's streamers, do NOT offer direct/built-in Wifi access. And both explicitly propogate ethernet streaming for both results. I believe many Linn owners overcome it either by installing bridges and/or using the powerline plugs. I'm absolutely not disputing your wired/wireless results in your system. But I would seriously doubt 24/192 audio on wireless, if not the powerlines. And kudos on your system, but 20,000 quid is not what many of us have at our disposal. And if I had then I would want to dabble in true 24/192. And hopefully sometime in the future, a faster, fatter, more reliable wireless standard will emerge to cope with high-res audio in the home.

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AL13N's picture
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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

John Duncan wrote:

steve_1979 wrote:

John Duncan wrote:
So can anybody tell me what the dynamic range of those 'crippled' Linn mp3s are?

These are the results for the Day 8 track 'Sunbeam Melts The Hour' by RM Hubbert.

 

 

These are the results for the Day 5 track 'House On The Hill' by Emma Pollock.

So what does that mean in the context of http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/ 's DR ratings?

Why take things out of context?

Here's where this discussion stems from:

http://news.linn.co.uk/news/2009/08/hear-the-difference-with-free-24-bit...

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steve_1979

steve_1979 wrote:

Irrespective of whether people want to buy their music in FLAC, ALAC or MP3 format shouldn't they have option to buy their music in the highest quality studio master version with the full dynamic range?

 

There is no reason why people who want to buy their music in 16bit FLAC, ALAC or MP3 format should be limited to having the lower quality CD master version with the compressed dynamic range.

+1

The Linn Store offers a very limited range of music aimed at a relatively small market. Given Linn's own philosophy and their typical customer's attitude towards high-fidelity, is it not reasonable to expect all downloads from this select assortment to be available at the highest quality possible?

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

John Duncan wrote:

steve_1979 wrote:

John Duncan wrote:
So can anybody tell me what the dynamic range of those 'crippled' Linn mp3s are?

These are the results for the Day 8 track 'Sunbeam Melts The Hour' by RM Hubbert.

 

 

These are the results for the Day 5 track 'House On The Hill' by Emma Pollock.

So what does that mean in the context of http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/ 's DR ratings?

The sound quality of Linn's music is exellent and the dynamic range on all of their tracks that I've looked at is good. However the MP3 version does have less dynamic range than the FLAC version.

 

You seem to be deliberately missing the point.

THERE IS NO NEED FOR THERE TO BE ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL!

 

Linn has chosen to convert the MP3 from a lower quality CD mastered version of the music that has a reduced amount of dynamic range. The MP3 could just as easily have been converted from the same high quality studio master version of the 24bit FLAC file. If the MP3 had been converted from the higher quality studio master version of the music it would have exactly the same amount of dynamic range as the 24bit FLAC version.

 

Why has Linn chosen to make the MP3 verson sound worse quality than it needs to be?

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John Duncan's picture
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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

AL13N wrote:
Why take things out of context? Here's where this discussion stems from: http://news.linn.co.uk/news/2009/08/hear-the-difference-with-free-24-bit-downloads-from-linn-records.php

I'm not trying to take things out of context.  I'm trying to understand what those numbers mean in comparison to other dynamic range data that's available - ie what that lower dynamic range file's dynamic range is in comparison to other content, or, indeed, *how* compressed one is compared to the other.  I'm just asking so that I understand a bit better.  Is that alright with you?

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John Duncan's picture
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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

steve_1979 wrote:

Why has Linn chosen to make the MP3 verson sound worse quality than it needs to be?

I thought that man on the Linn forum said that they'd made the mp3s from the CDs, and the Studio Masters were mastered with no compromises?  So really it's the other way round?  They take the standard product (the one you can buy in the shops) and make it better for what is, let's face it, a miniscule market who think that 24 bit sound better (of whom I am not one, as you know).  Are you trying to second-guess the bloke who mastered the CD?

And I ask again, what is the dynamic range of that mp3 (taken from the CD, presumably), and how does it compare to other material?  I'm trying to understand whether the accusation of "compounding the loudness wars" is fair in the context of other recordings.

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John Duncan's picture
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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

steve_1979 wrote:

However the MP3 version does have less dynamic range than the FLAC version.

Or alternatively, the FLAC has more dynamic range than the mp3.

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

John Duncan wrote:

steve_1979 wrote:

Why has Linn chosen to make the MP3 verson sound worse quality than it needs to be?

I thought that man on the Linn forum said that they'd made the mp3s from the CDs, and the Studio Masters were mastered with no compromises?  So really it's the other way round?  They take the standard product (the one you can buy in the shops) and make it better for what is, let's face it, a miniscule market who think that 24 bit sound better (of whom I am not one, as you know).  Are you trying to second-guess the bloke who mastered the CD?

Yes studio masters were mastered with no compromises. So why not convert all off the MP3, ALAC and 16bit FLAC files from these 'no compromise' versions of the music? The CD masters have reduced dynamic range.

 

Reduced dynamic range = Reduce sound quality

 

 

John Duncan wrote:

And I ask again, what is the dynamic range of that mp3 (taken from the CD, presumably), and how does it compare to other material? I'm trying to understand whether the accusation of "compounding the loudness wars" is fair in the context of other recordings.

The track 'House On The Hill' by Emma Pollock has good dynamic range value of 11.

The track 'Sunbeam Melts The Hour' by RM Hubbert is actually pretty bad dynamic range value of only 7.

 

As I have said many times the the sound quality of Linn's music is generally exellent and the difference between their studio mastered and the CD mastered versions is quite small when compared to what you will find with most other record companies. However:

THERE IS NO NEED FOR THERE TO BE ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL!

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

steve_1979 wrote:

 

THERE IS NO NEED FOR THERE TO BE ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL!

 

But there clearly is, more important then why do you think there is, and (I'm presuming the motivation for all the analaysis) why do you think there actually should not?

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

John Duncan wrote:

steve_1979 wrote:

However the MP3 version does have less dynamic range than the FLAC version.

Or alternatively, the FLAC has more dynamic range than the mp3.

You're just playing semantics now. banging head against wall

 

The point is that they should both have the same amount of dynamic range.

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

I'm probably going to regret htis but yes, we know that, Steve; you have said so, in bold type, as many times as even soe who agree with you can handle.

John, your deliberately obtuse act izzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

And I'm sure you can fix the typos in your heads.

 

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

SteveR750 wrote:

steve_1979 wrote:

 

THERE IS NO NEED FOR THERE TO BE ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL!

 

But there clearly is, more important then why do you think there is, and (I'm presuming the motivation for all the analaysis) why do you think there actually should not?

When an MP3 is converted from the studio mastered version of the music it sounds identical to the 'no compromise' 24bit FLAC version.

 

When an MP3 is converted from the CD mastered version of the music it sounds slightly worse than the 'no compromise' 24bit FLAC version.

 

puzzled http://turnmeup.org/

 

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

Alec wrote:

I'm probably going to regret htis but yes, we know that, Steve; you have said so, in bold type, as many times as even soe who agree with you can handle.

John, your deliberately obtuse act izzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I'm not being deliberately obtuse.  JimC's reply to Steve on the Linn forum refers.  It's Steve who's not getting it.

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RE: Better mastered music could be on the way!

John Duncan wrote:
I'm not being deliberately obtuse.  JimC's reply to Steve on the Linn forum refers.  It's Steve who's not getting it.

Hopefully Jim will be willing to answer this question for me:

 

Would an MP3 which is converted from a studio mastered FLAC file have better sound quality than an MP3 that's been converted from the CD mastered file which has compressed dynamic range?

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