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lindsayt's picture
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RE: Best Speakers

JCBrum am I take to your lack of answer to my question on your whereabouts on 2nd and 3rd of March to mean that you don't want to compare your AVI ADM 40's against my speakers?

 

Am I also right in thinking that you've never heard my speakers and that your statement that the ADM 40's have better drivers than my speakers is therefore not based on any first hand experience on your part? So, you think that the ADM 40's have better drivers than some other speaker that you've never heard? And it would seem that you don't even wish to hear these other speakers to find out if your statement was correct or not?

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RE: Best Speakers

oldric_naubhoff wrote:
wow, you really need 25 years of experience to put together some OEM drivers and a few planks of wood? any decent DIYer (I mean no disrespect to any DIYer) could do that with a few days of making preparations. but they needed 25 years to design a wooden box with two holes and then buy some drivers from ScanSpeak? well done AVI!

I'm not an expert in speaker design but I'm pretty certain that there was a lot more involved in designing the ADM40's than you suggest. Smile

 

It's not just a case of designing the enclosure and selecting the drivers (which in itself would have taken a considerable amount of research and time). There's also the designing of the pre-amplifier, the power-amplifiers, the active crossovers, the implementation of the DAC and getting it all to work together. All this and it also needs pass safety regulations and be tested for reliability.

 

I have no idea whether or not the ADM40's are the best speakers in the world. But I'm pretty sure that they're better than your average DIYer could build.

Hi-Fi - Yamaha RX-V667 > AVI DM5 > AVI subwoofer

Head-Fi - Epiphany Acoustics EHP-O2Di > Sennheisser HD700

Portable - Sony NWZ-A847 > Westone UM3x

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RE: Best Speakers

nopiano wrote:

BenLaw wrote:

Ditto Lindsay and wardrobes. 

ROFL

 

Incidentally, I took the OP literally, which, had they used a question mark, might have been seeking views on the best speakers, bar none.  I've never heard AVIs but it seems slightly implausible they are the best possible.  Don't tell Magico, David Wilson or the Sonus faber people!  [to name just three]

Indeed it was Lindsay who early on challenged what question might have been intended.

 

I auditioned well over 50 pairs of loudspeakers before I bought my AVI's, and I think you can put them up against some very expensive ones indeed.

 

As a matter of fact, personally, I don't think a high price is any guarantee whatsoever of sonic performance, once you get above the 'run of the mill' cheap stuff.

 

I compared some Wilson Benesch, recently, and thought they were pretty dreadful.

 

JC

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RE: Best Speakers

I don't want to take my loudspeakers to the Melton Mowbray show, lindsayt, but if I do decide to go I shall listen to your particular speakers with interest.  

Thanks for the offer.   I'm also interested in old professional turntables, which is an interest you share, irrc.

 

JC

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RE: Best Speakers

jcbrum wrote:

Bozak Symphonys are an early sixties design, which have no acoustic suspension.  Most other manufacturers introduced acoustic suspension for the driver cone from the late fifties onwards, and it became an almost universal feature.

 

Don't you think, lindsayt, that loudspeaker drive unit design has made any progress towards better fidelity in the last fifty years ?

 

JC

JC here's a quote from the Wikipedia entry for Acoustic Suspension speakers:

"

The acoustic-suspension woofer (sometimes known as “air suspension”) uses the elastic cushion of air within a sealed enclosure to provide the restoring force for the woofer diaphragm.

Unlike the stiff suspension of conventional speakers, the trapped air inside the sealed-loudspeaker enclosure provides a more linear restoring force for the woofer's diaphragm, enabling it to oscillate a greater distance (excursion) in a linear fashion. This is a requirement for clean reproduction of deep-bass tones by drivers with relatively small cones (e.g. smaller than 12-16 inches in diameter) not mounted in a horn or similar for increased coupling at low frequencies enclosure. Acoustic suspension cabinets are not entirely airtight. A small amount of airflow must be allowed so the speaker can adjust to changes in atmospheric pressure."

 

The Bozak Symphonys use two 12" bass drivers per cabinet. So, according to the wiki entry, acoustic suspension does not apply to them. With that cone size they move much less (6.7 times less) than a single 6.5" cone.

 

Also, the problemn with acoustic suspension is transient response. The air acts as a spring reducing transient response. Put the speaker cones in a large enough cabinet and the spring effect from the air is minimal.

 

Now JCBrum, can you please explain to me how bass distortion and bass transient response has improved in the last 50 years when you compare AVI ADM 40's against Bozak Symphonys, from a theoretical point of view?

 

And of course, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Or in the case of hi-fi in the listening - which you apparently don't want to do?

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RE: Best Speakers

jcbrum wrote:

I don't want to take my loudspeakers to the Melton Mowbray show, lindsayt, but if I do decide to go I shall listen to your particular speakers with interest.  

Thanks for the offer.   I'm also interested in old professional turntables, which is an interest you share, irrc.

 

JC

My speakers will be in a large van that week-end. I can pop by your place on my way to or from Scalford.

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RE: Best Speakers

How about you answer my question first,

 

jcbrum wrote:

Don't you think, lindsayt, that loudspeaker drive unit design has made any progress towards better fidelity in the last fifty years ?

 

JC

 

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RE: Best Speakers

steve_1979 wrote:
It's not just a case of designing the enclosure...

Superficially at least, the cabinets appear to be based on the old AVI Duos.

(Slightly scaled up presumably to allow for the internal volume taken up by the ADM40s amplifiers.)

"We are currently awaiting the loading of our complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins for your comfort, refreshment and hygiene during the journey."

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RE: Best Speakers

chebby wrote:

steve_1979 wrote:
It's not just a case of designing the enclosure...

Superficially at least, the cabinets appear to be based on the old AVI Duos.

(Slightly scaled up presumably to allow for the internal volume taken up by the ADM40s amplifiers.)

I think Ashley said the ADM40 enclosure volume and ports are built to Scanspeaks recommendation for the Illuminator driver. The styling seems to mimic the old Duo, Trio, and Brio speakers.

 

AVI Duo clicky

AVI Trio clicky

AVI Brio clicky

 

Hi-Fi - Yamaha RX-V667 > AVI DM5 > AVI subwoofer

Head-Fi - Epiphany Acoustics EHP-O2Di > Sennheisser HD700

Portable - Sony NWZ-A847 > Westone UM3x

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RE: Best Speakers

More and more companies are now releasing "multi-function" products in 1 box, like for instance ROTEL RA12 (£599) , this does in many ways play a factor when discussing value for money. 

For instance a Rotel RA12 paired with Dynaudio Excite X32 (£1599) would give a highly capable system for £2198.

Atleast for moderate listing levels this is a set-up that should easily compete with something like ADM40 (£3250).

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RE: Best Speakers

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:

BenLaw wrote:
I was referring to you saying 'Is that the best you can come back with Overdose?' That was very childish also. 

Well it wasn't a great comeback was it. I mean:

 

Quote:
What I would like to know is (genuinely) why anyone would take their speakers (or any other hifi equipment for that matter) anywhere other than their own home to listen to? What's that all about? Does this really happen?

The whole concept of moving a hifi system to some sort of convention seems rather bizarre to me. Is this what you consider normal?

Yes, he knows it does! It happens every year!! 

 

I really didn't (seriously), but certainly do now and I'm sorry if it offends, but in the context of some peoples comments about 'cult' status, I find this statement hilariously ironic and rather hypocritical. It reminds me of Cosplay conventions, the fantasy element is obviously there in spades, but without the hot chic outfits.

Sounds like a riot. :roll:

Anyway, I was actually asking for jjbombers answers to his own rhetorical (?) questions.

Best Speakers? For what and whom?

Mine, for me. Wink

Is that better Frank?

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RE: Best Speakers

It's David Smile

I'm not sure how many forums you participate in, but the ones that I do have mentions shows like these many times, including the main one you frequent. So apologies if you really didn't know, but i find that hard to believe that you're not aware of them  Smile

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: Best Speakers

Overdose wrote:
The whole concept of moving a hifi system to some sort of convention seems rather bizarre to me. Is this what you consider normal

That sounds quite interesting to me. Though I admit that I'm far from normal. :shifty:

Hi-Fi - Yamaha RX-V667 > AVI DM5 > AVI subwoofer

Head-Fi - Epiphany Acoustics EHP-O2Di > Sennheisser HD700

Portable - Sony NWZ-A847 > Westone UM3x

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RE: Best Speakers

Instead of the usual argy bargy whenever AVI get mentioned, how about constructive comments about what you think is the ideal speaker design and the speaker that’s closest to it? It might be more interesting?

Some may well prefer passive speakers and that's find, but for me, they'd have to be active. Now I've become aware of it, I find bass boom and mushy midrange of most passive speakers to be a trade-off I don't want in my speakers.

AVI and B&W appear to agree that mounting the mid and tweeter in a small box aids dispersion. B&W do this by mounting their mid & tweeter on top of the bass drivers, AVI do it by giving the option of a separate sub. I think I prefer the AVI approach, as it's more flexible. I started with the sub, but now find I don't need it.

I'd also like to hear Genelec's 8260A (10", 5", 1" drivers and DSP for ~ £7000) to hear what well implemented DSP does to the sound.

I've not heard any planar speakers in about 10 years, so I'd also like to hear some SOTA electrostatics or ribbons as I seem to remember them sounding pretty good.

I wouldn't mind taking my ADM40s and sub to the pie show, but it's too far for me plus I think many people would only want to hear them so they can say how rubbish they are.

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RE: Best Speakers

I prefer Open Baffle speakers. Moving coil DIY ones, as well as Planar/Electrostatic such as the Quad 57, Apogee models and the Magnepan MMG.

I have found that for bass speed, accuracy and control, as well as soundstage and life like presentation they are unbeatable in these areas.

They may not be for everyone, and given the space they need a little to work with and some are a little fussy with regards to amplification (although that is not necessarily expensive, just has to be well designed).

But most of them dont look very pretty so people will go with lifestyle sized speakers that fit in their rooms, which is fair to be honest as most people, including me, dont have quite enough space for them.

Michell Gyrodec SE / RB300 / 2M Blue | Sony DVP-S9000ES | Bryston B60 | Rega R9

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