Have your say & ask the experts!

Audiolab and Country Of Origin markings ?

54 replies [Last post]
bluedroog's picture
Offline
Joined: 4 Mar 2010
Posts: 388
RE: Audiolab and Country Of Origin markings ?

chebby wrote:

bluedroog wrote:
China are fantastic producers at most price points..

Then why aren't IAG (Chinese owned) happy to print 'Made In China' on the back of their Chinese manufactured products?

The back of my iPhone (for instance) makes it quite clear where it was designed and where it was assembled.

Cambridge Audio also make it clear that their kit is designed in England and made in China.

 

 

Because people still have a bias against products made there. I suppose this is because they produce the majority of the world's tat too. Like I said they are very able at different price points but consumers associate China with inferior products, products made here get the reverse treatment.

 

That’s not to say one is better than the other but I know what I’d rather put on the back of my product.

tino's picture
Offline
Joined: 29 Sep 2011
Posts: 824
RE: Audiolab and Country Of Origin markings ?

When the label doesn't say clearly where the item is made, or it says "designed and engineered in Great Britain" (without reference to the country of manufacture/assembly) it's obvious that the manufacturer it trying to obfuscate things or trading on the buyer making an assumption that because the brand is, or sounds like it is British (or whatever), it is actually made there. I have no doubt that goods made in China can be built as well as goods elsewhere but that is not the point. Sometimes we want to know where something is built because we want to support the economy and labour force of that country - especially if we live there. Hifi components made in GB, Japan, USA, or Italy etc. are usually quite proud of that fact and have a label that clearly states so.

__________________

SBT | Wadia 151 | Aliante Moda PF

busb's picture
Offline
Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 920
RE: Audiolab and Country Of Origin markings ?

chebby wrote:

bluedroog wrote:
China are fantastic producers at most price points..

Then why aren't IAG (Chinese owned) happy to print 'Made In China' on the back of their Chinese manufactured products?

The back of my iPhone (for instance) makes it quite clear where it was designed and where it was assembled.

Cambridge Audio also make it clear that their kit is designed in England and made in China.

 

Or made in China, designed in the Czech Repulic by an Englishman! A friend said that IAG was not Chinese but Bahrain-based. I can't find anything to support that view:

http://www.internationalaudiogroup.com/executive_summary.php

__________________

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds - the pessimist fears this is true."

James Branch Cabell

 

_________________________________________________________

MAIN: Apple TV2, Mac Mini (controlled from various iThings using Remote), CA Azur 751BD & Panasonic P42V20B into audiolab M-DAC, feeding a Primare A34.2 class D power amp via XLRs, 2x 5m of Atlas Ascent 2 firing up Totem Arros. DALI Kubik Free in my kitchen

ON THE HOOF: iPhone 5S/Sennheiser MM450.

Covenanter's picture
Offline
Joined: 20 Jul 2012
Posts: 970
RE: Audiolab RE: Audiolab

busb wrote:

Covenanter wrote:

busb wrote:

The current global model maybe unsustainable to the point that it fractures down to producing stuff locally again. Doing so is a balance between globalised economies of scale on one hand & not transporting coals to Newcastle on the other. Societies may have to sacrifice cheap goods for the sake of local employment.

 In the 19th century Cobden wrote "... [should] a country be found whose cottons and woolens shall be cheaper than those of England and the rest of the world then to that spot ... shall all the traders of the earth flock; and no human power, no fleets or armies. will prevent Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds from sharing the fate of their once proud predecessors in Holland, Italy and Phoenicia ...".  He was right and the textile industry is no longer located in Britain and what he said applies in the same way to every industry and we in this country would do best to realise that the world changes and we need to change with it.

Chris

That's the commerce-centric view of business that has a great deal of inertia behind it. The world in changing to the point us "little people" are beginning to not only be heard but have collectively more power than many think. Most people don't give a fig where stuff they buy is made but there comes a point when they can't afford even cheap goods, they may just start to care where it's made if it means retaining their means earning money.

On the otherhand, you maybe right, & the 1st world ceases to exist & globalisation equalises pay, healthcare, standards of living, where polution occurs, car ownership etc. Will companies be so eager to move parts of their business overseas if pay began to equalise? It's a very dynamic world we live in & very difficult to predict.

Yep and when I was young in the 1950s Japan was where the cheap stuff came from and it was regarded as "tat".  (Similarly at the start of the 20th century Germany was where cheap toys came from.)  Then as their economy boomed the wages went up and they had to move upmarket and now generally we view Japanese stuff as being high-quality.  The same thing or similar will happen in China and then production will move who knows where, maybe to Africa.  As you say, this is very difficult to predict and I certainly don't know the answer.

Certainly all Chinese goods aren't "cheap".  My new KEF speakers were made in China and my new bedroom furniture from John Lewis was too and both are very high-quality.  On the other hand if you buy Canon camera lenses you are generally recommended to find the ones made in Japan rather than those made in China.

Chris

busb's picture
Offline
Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 920
RE: Audiolab RE: Audiolab

Covenanter wrote:

busb wrote:

Covenanter wrote:

busb wrote:

The current global model maybe unsustainable to the point that it fractures down to producing stuff locally again. Doing so is a balance between globalised economies of scale on one hand & not transporting coals to Newcastle on the other. Societies may have to sacrifice cheap goods for the sake of local employment.

 In the 19th century Cobden wrote "... [should] a country be found whose cottons and woolens shall be cheaper than those of England and the rest of the world then to that spot ... shall all the traders of the earth flock; and no human power, no fleets or armies. will prevent Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds from sharing the fate of their once proud predecessors in Holland, Italy and Phoenicia ...".  He was right and the textile industry is no longer located in Britain and what he said applies in the same way to every industry and we in this country would do best to realise that the world changes and we need to change with it.

Chris

That's the commerce-centric view of business that has a great deal of inertia behind it. The world in changing to the point us "little people" are beginning to not only be heard but have collectively more power than many think. Most people don't give a fig where stuff they buy is made but there comes a point when they can't afford even cheap goods, they may just start to care where it's made if it means retaining their means earning money.

On the otherhand, you maybe right, & the 1st world ceases to exist & globalisation equalises pay, healthcare, standards of living, where polution occurs, car ownership etc. Will companies be so eager to move parts of their business overseas if pay began to equalise? It's a very dynamic world we live in & very difficult to predict.

Yep and when I was young in the 1950s Japan was where the cheap stuff came from and it was regarded as "tat".  (Similarly at the start of the 20th century Germany was where cheap toys came from.)  Then as their economy boomed the wages went up and they had to move upmarket and now generally we view Japanese stuff as being high-quality.  The same thing or similar will happen in China and then production will move who knows where, maybe to Africa.  As you say, this is very difficult to predict and I certainly don't know the answer.

Certainly all Chinese goods aren't "cheap".  My new KEF speakers were made in China and my new bedroom furniture from John Lewis was too and both are very high-quality.  On the other hand if you buy Canon camera lenses you are generally recommended to find the ones made in Japan rather than those made in China.

Chris

My iPhone is assembled/contrusted/made in China & is built like a jewel & works/looks the same the day I collected it. I was born in the 50s so remember stuff like my mum keeping spent butter wrappers in the fridge to grease cake tins. I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

__________________

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds - the pessimist fears this is true."

James Branch Cabell

 

_________________________________________________________

MAIN: Apple TV2, Mac Mini (controlled from various iThings using Remote), CA Azur 751BD & Panasonic P42V20B into audiolab M-DAC, feeding a Primare A34.2 class D power amp via XLRs, 2x 5m of Atlas Ascent 2 firing up Totem Arros. DALI Kubik Free in my kitchen

ON THE HOOF: iPhone 5S/Sennheiser MM450.

Andrew Everard's picture
Offline
Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 29118
RE: Audiolab RE: Audiolab

busb wrote:
I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

Although of course the term 'jerry-built' has nothing to do with the wartime slang term for the German people.

__________________

Audio Editor, Gramophone

tino's picture
Offline
Joined: 29 Sep 2011
Posts: 824
RE: Audiolab and Country Of Origin markings ?

Back to the point of this thread (as opposed to the arguing over the quality of goods manufactured in different countries) is why don't Audiolab put a sticker on their products that says "Made in China" and instead print the Huntingdon, UK address? 

__________________

SBT | Wadia 151 | Aliante Moda PF

Covenanter's picture
Offline
Joined: 20 Jul 2012
Posts: 970
RE: Audiolab RE: Audiolab RE: Audiolab RE: Audiolab

Andrew Everard wrote:

busb wrote:
I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

Although of course the term 'jerry-built' has nothing to do with the wartime slang term for the German people.

Indeed not:

"

Jerry built

Meaning

Built in a makeshift and insubstantial manner.

Origin

The phrase has been around since at least 1869, when it was defined in the Lonsdale Glossary:

"Jerry-built, slightly, or unsubstantially built."

By 1901, the term began to be used figuratively - a sure sign of acceptance into the general language; for example, The Daily Chronicle, in August that year printed this opinion:

"In an age of jerry-built books it is refreshing to come across a volume that has taken forty years to compile."

The derivation is unknown. What we do know is that the term has nothing to do with the UK slang term for German - Jerry/Gerry. This is of WWI origin and the citations above pre-date that. As always when a phrase's origin is unknown people like to guess, so here goes. It is possible that the term derives from the slang term jerrycummumble or jerrymumble. This was defined in the 1811 version of Francis Grose's Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue:

"JERRYCUMMUMBLE. To shake, towzle, or tumble about."

Some other guesses, although none of them appear to have any substantiating evidence, place the origin as:

- The cheap, flimsy constructs of Jerry Brothers - a Liverpool building firm. (Note: I've not been able to confirm the existence of this company).

- The walls of Jericho which, as everyone knows 'came tumbling down'.

- The Romany word for excrement - 'gerry'.

- A corruption of 'jury-rig' - although if that were the case we might expect to see some printed reference to 'jury-built' or 'jerry-rigged'. The former is unknown and citations of the latter all date from the 20th century."

Chris

Covenanter's picture
Offline
Joined: 20 Jul 2012
Posts: 970
RE: Audiolab and Country Of Origin markings ?

To return to the OP I found this on a government website:

 

Country of origin markings

Generally speaking, there is no requirement in the law of the United Kingdom or the European Union for goods to bear marks indicating their origin, nor is there anything to prevent voluntary origin marking where traders wish to do so. However, where such marks are applied to goods, the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 (TDA) effectively requires these marks to be accurate. Subject to certain defences, this Act makes it a criminal offence for a person, in the course of business, to apply false or misleading trade descriptions to goods. The term "trade description" includes, amongst others, an indication, however given, of the "place of manufacture, production, processing or reconditioning" of the goods.

So I think they can put "Made in China" if they like or leave it off if they like.  Having their UK address is fine unless it said "Made in the UK" when it wasn't.

Chris

chebby's picture
Offline
Joined: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 15386
RE: Audiolab and Country Of Origin markings ?

Yeah, all seems a bit like 'James Pringle' cashmere jumpers...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9612939.stm

"Designed in Scotland" (but made by North Korean labour gangs in Mongolian factories).

__________________

Marantz M-CR603 • Rega R3 loudspeakers • AirPlay • Apple iPad Mini • Apple iPhone 5 • Apple iMac • Apple AirPort Extreme 802.11N • Humax HDR-Fox T2 • Panasonic TX-L32D25B • Sony BDP-S390

tino's picture
Offline
Joined: 29 Sep 2011
Posts: 824
RE: Audiolab and Country Of Origin markings ?

Covenanter wrote:

To return to the OP I found this on a government website:

 

Country of origin markings

Generally speaking, there is no requirement in the law of the United Kingdom or the European Union for goods to bear marks indicating their origin, nor is there anything to prevent voluntary origin marking where traders wish to do so. However, where such marks are applied to goods, the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 (TDA) effectively requires these marks to be accurate. Subject to certain defences, this Act makes it a criminal offence for a person, in the course of business, to apply false or misleading trade descriptions to goods. The term "trade description" includes, amongst others, an indication, however given, of the "place of manufacture, production, processing or reconditioning" of the goods.

 

So I think they can put "Made in China" if they like or leave it off if they like.  Having their UK address is fine unless it said "Made in the UK" when it wasn't.

Chris

Which begs the question why don't they put something like "Registered office: Huntingdon, PE29 6XE, UK" to make it clear. Otherwise it might confuse buyers into thinking they are buying a UK product? Another reason is that it might be in keeping in the tradition of older Quad products used to have the address on the back when they were actually made in the UK.

__________________

SBT | Wadia 151 | Aliante Moda PF

busb's picture
Offline
Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 920
RE: Audiolab RE: Audiolab

Andrew Everard wrote:

busb wrote:
I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

Although of course the term 'jerry-built' has nothing to do with the wartime slang term for the German people.

You are absolutely correct - several sources say the same. The term may have come from builders called Jerry Brothers from well before WW1. I sit corrected!

__________________

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds - the pessimist fears this is true."

James Branch Cabell

 

_________________________________________________________

MAIN: Apple TV2, Mac Mini (controlled from various iThings using Remote), CA Azur 751BD & Panasonic P42V20B into audiolab M-DAC, feeding a Primare A34.2 class D power amp via XLRs, 2x 5m of Atlas Ascent 2 firing up Totem Arros. DALI Kubik Free in my kitchen

ON THE HOOF: iPhone 5S/Sennheiser MM450.

plastic penguin's picture
Offline
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 15588
RE: Audiolab RE: Audiolab

Andrew Everard wrote:

busb wrote:
I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

Although of course the term 'jerry-built' has nothing to do with the wartime slang term for the German people.

Yup, before the first and second world wars the Germans mass produced metal containers or Wehrmacht-Einheitskanister (may have mis-spelt) were stockpiled. They were cheap to produce and any cheap metal products, such as food tins or containers for personal hygiene, were coined jerrycans. As far as I'm aware, there's no direct link to the German people.

__________________

Amp: Leema Pulse; Source: Naim CD5i-2, Denon 260MKII, Pro-ject XP I; Speakers: PMC TB2i

 

Formerly known as plastic penguin

busb's picture
Offline
Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 920
RE: Audiolab RE: Audiolab RE: Audiolab RE: Audiolab

Covenanter wrote:

Andrew Everard wrote:

busb wrote:
I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

Although of course the term 'jerry-built' has nothing to do with the wartime slang term for the German people.

Indeed not:

"

Jerry built

Meaning

Built in a makeshift and insubstantial manner.

Origin

The phrase has been around since at least 1869, when it was defined in the Lonsdale Glossary:

"Jerry-built, slightly, or unsubstantially built."

By 1901, the term began to be used figuratively - a sure sign of acceptance into the general language; for example, The Daily Chronicle, in August that year printed this opinion:

"In an age of jerry-built books it is refreshing to come across a volume that has taken forty years to compile."

The derivation is unknown. What we do know is that the term has nothing to do with the UK slang term for German - Jerry/Gerry. This is of WWI origin and the citations above pre-date that. As always when a phrase's origin is unknown people like to guess, so here goes. It is possible that the term derives from the slang term jerrycummumble or jerrymumble. This was defined in the 1811 version of Francis Grose's Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue:

"JERRYCUMMUMBLE. To shake, towzle, or tumble about."

Some other guesses, although none of them appear to have any substantiating evidence, place the origin as:

- The cheap, flimsy constructs of Jerry Brothers - a Liverpool building firm. (Note: I've not been able to confirm the existence of this company).

- The walls of Jericho which, as everyone knows 'came tumbling down'.

- The Romany word for excrement - 'gerry'.

- A corruption of 'jury-rig' - although if that were the case we might expect to see some printed reference to 'jury-built' or 'jerry-rigged'. The former is unknown and citations of the latter all date from the 20th century."

Chris

My parents taught me to believe everything they said!

Large bold type! You shouldn't have - I'm not worthy!

__________________

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds - the pessimist fears this is true."

James Branch Cabell

 

_________________________________________________________

MAIN: Apple TV2, Mac Mini (controlled from various iThings using Remote), CA Azur 751BD & Panasonic P42V20B into audiolab M-DAC, feeding a Primare A34.2 class D power amp via XLRs, 2x 5m of Atlas Ascent 2 firing up Totem Arros. DALI Kubik Free in my kitchen

ON THE HOOF: iPhone 5S/Sennheiser MM450.

shropshire lad's picture
Offline
Joined: 18 Feb 2010
Posts: 425
RE: Audiolab and Country Of Origin markings ?

I have just looked at the boxes of my 2005 dated Audiolab 8000S and 8000P amplifiers and they both have a sticker saying "Made in China" on them . I haven't looked at the amplifiers themselves . This may not have any bearing on what happens today but at least they used to acknowledge the country of origin in the past .