Are separates on borrowed time?

shortsighted? .... really .... look if you dont get it let me draw another analogy for you

i use a 27" PC monitor then i have a 32" LCD TV mounted on the bedroom wall and then i use a 50" TV in the main lounge where my hi-fi setup is so should i listen to you when you tell me that the best thing you ever saw on a screen was when you ripped a blu-ray to FLV form and saved it onto an SD card to watch it on a 3" screen on your iphone

if that makes you happy be my guest but dont expect everyone to think like you

in fact i just popped in to the local supermarket to buy some stuff and i just saw something that sums it all up about headphone usage for me - theres the guy stopped at the traffic light next to me playing his music loudly and dancing to it in his car system while his mate sat next to him in the passenger seat was wearing his headphones looking thoroughly miffed cos the car system was probably louder than the music he was trying to listen to with his headphones  .... it will be an image that probably lives with me till i die as representing the sense (more like lack of) that i personally make out of headphone usage

so yeah each to his own - you can stick to your headphones and be happy .... no skin off my back

Thanks, I am, but of course my main system is listed in my signature.  Prior to that the speakers were Mission 752s.  The common theme running through them all, headphones included, is the ability to deliver a realistic portrayal of the musical piece I'm listening to.  None of the options I use (or have done) lets me down.  Simple really; but you can't see beyond your bias and prejudices and the reality is that you're in the minority.  

Pop over to the Steve Hoffman forum and see how long you last on there.

What on earth are you talking about?  Who's talking about screens?  Why do you think I would think as you appear to?  The above is an incorrect reach that you're making, though the iPod Touch I use does have a very good screen and picture performance, I know what I'll watch in my living room.  My 32" Sony...why would I be any different.  

For TVs?  I don't, that was your rant and your (incorrect) reach.  Strange boy.

Umm, this has to do with me what?  Two guys sitting in a car - strikes me that all you're doing is taking a bunch of your own prejudices and bringing them out on here.  Life's too short and I can't be bothered with the nonsense.  

ooh.. wrote:

moon wrote:

ooh.. wrote:

Headphones can sound great, but even when i had no hifi for a while recently, i never used them at home, only walking and in the gym, not sure why but it just didn't feel right using them at home. 

look what you started .... Max.........

still rocking out?

Was earlier but it's getting late 

Loving the ADMs though, i got a great price on them as they were Ash's demo pair. A pair of Soundstyle Z1s are due in the morning to replace the two stacks of bricks they're currently sitting on 

 

keep the bricks.......... they're Rock

Lookin' good Max.

Once you've swapped the bricks for speaker stands all that's left to do is replace the wooden TV stand for a 10" subwoofer...

i'm curious - did you miss the word analogy or do you simply not understand what it means

oh the irony cos thats how i see you, only i would word it more strongly

i would like to say no,

but unfortunatly most of the sheep out there follow the herd and havent a clue what quality is.

the young folk these days seem to think that mp3 is quality and are happy with music played from a rubbish pc cd player on bell wire cable or on a ipod played through a ipod music system costing £50 which im sure i got better sound from my 1980 ghettoblaster tape deck

There are days when driving around that I think that my standard Hyundai car stereo sounds better than anything I've ever had in my front room.

Not particularly happy this morning, the left channel on my amp has decided to pack in, so not sure how much that's going to cost to put right

.

Headphones offer a different listening experience to speakers.  Of course you don't get the soundstaging in the same way, but with headphones you do get a very intimate experience with the music and you often pick up on different details if you use a good quality pair.  Mostly, for me, headphones are about being able to listen to music at times when using speakers would disturb other people.  Being as the music is the most important aspect of all this for me, I don't want to be limited as to when I can listen and it just isn't right to be using speakers after 10pm at night when neighbours could be disturbed.

One thing I don't want to see developing on this forum is snobbery about different people's choices, whether that be using headphones or their choice of components, such as the Wharfedales that Moon uses.  This forum has always been open minded about what can be achieved with a wide range of kit and there is no reason why that should change.

HiFi should reproduce what the source is with minimam colouration, noise, distortion and have an accurate frequency responce, it doesnt matter how this is done, most hi-fi today is engineered to a standard and can reproduce it what ever the price. I would say a headphone could reproduce an accuate frequency response better than speakers can, there is no cabinet peaks and troughs, no port resonances or crossover points with headphones either.

A holographic image is easily achieved with any cost hi-fi, go to the reviews section on whf and build the cheapest hi-fi, that will image. Imaging is only an illusion created whilst recording in the studio, the most common method is to use the Blumlien which you have 2 microphones at 90˚ to each other, this technique was actually created in the early 1900's for cimema, to give the impression of a charecter walking form one side of the screen to the other, its still used today as it helps with phase issues when recording. You can still recreate the illution of the band with one microphone, its all in the mix down and you need to remember, not all artists record at the some time or even the same place, laying track over track to create the final is common so what your imaging is not a true portrayal of what happened in the stuidio and that in turn is knowere near the bands live performance, it is studio trickery, but still its fun.

On a personnel note, i've hav CDP's ranging from £20 up to 10k in my system and all of them imaged, some better than others and one was outstanding and the source has a greater impact over imaging when a pair of speakers are set up correctly.

You'll probaly find headphone users would disagree and to say 9.1's cant recreate a good image is rediculous.

Blimey, look at all those cables  

Moon, maybe, just maybe you need to hear some better hifi systems, there is a whole world out there!

Headphones can not re-create 'people in the room' that you get from very good hifi-systems, unfortunatley those particular ones are A-Quite expensive, B-not domestically acceptable and C-Usually involve some sort of DIY and Tweaking.

They can be good though, dont get me wrong and as mentioned, eliminate the biggest limiting factor in any hifi-system, the room. But IMO they can not give me what I want from a hifi. And you can not share it with friends, thats a downside.

I was just wondering, how, 

1: you know what What Hi Fi equipment i have owned in my life?

2 : you know what Hi Fi I have listened to?

It has already been pointed out in no uncertain terms that I could not possibly understand Soundstaging and imagining In realtion to Hi Fi, because

1: I made a statement about my personal headphone use.

2: I base everything I know about sound reproduction on some Wharfedale Diamonds.

I regret having mentioned anything about my education background even though it was stated that my knowledge was in question.

Room Acoustics and the production/ mastering of a track has far more impact on how the music sounds than what its played back on regardless of the cost........ the whole snobbery of I own this expensive bit of equipment so it must be good lark.....is just tiresome and narrow minded.

So as they say in Dragons 

I'm out

( and taking a brake from here......)

Have a nice easter and enjoy the Holidays 

I agree with what you said, and If you read my post you would see that. I was just saying maybe you need to hear a lot more hifi systems, not always expensive (Your stuff probably cost more than mine did).

And to be honest you did say-

Which is quite a strong statment, and opens up debate.

You did not add a qualifier either, for example, one thing I believe "The ATC SCM7's are the best bookshelf speaker I have heard under £1k" so that gives you a bit of context. I have heard quite a few speakers in that price range and its my opinion. Granted I have not heard all bookshelf speakers in that price range so its open to debate and opinion, and I am willing to be proved wrong.

When you get in a huff as some people have questioned your opinion on your above statment, seems a bit naieve.

Now you also claimed that-

Now, I also have a degree, in Car Design, now that might give me an informed opinion on the design of cars, but not an opinion over anyone else, degree or not.

Agreed.

High quality headphones are better than speakers in some ways but worse in other ways. Different compromises.

It's the same for me, I never listen to headphones at home only speakers.

I do much of my music listening via my Walkman when I'm out and about though. It never fails to impress me that a high quality portable system can sound just as good (in most but not all ways) as the best active speakers that I've ever heard.