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...chased by a bear.
One from here, presumably:
Although the separates market is shrinking I think that they'll be around for quite a while yet. Though high end separates are already a very small niche market when compared to AV and lifestyle systems (docks, streamers etc).
The market for pro audio active speakers is also bigger than separates but I'm not sure if actives will ever replace passives as the accepted norm in peoples living rooms.
PC > AVI Neutron Five 2.1
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I don't think "some people here" are saying that, Chebby. I think you're reading into it a bit.
I don't think actives have anything to do with a potentially shrinking separates market. There's probably a lot of reasons for such change. Decling disposable incomes, boom in portable audio, integration of products and services, ever increasing prices for buying multiple PSUs/cases/cables/DAC/pre-amp/power-amps/etc/etc/etc.
Those names that you reel off, Chebby, are probably going to keep (very) afloat by selling into emerging markets like China. The UK will just sit at the side and enjoy the benefits. Benefits like amps with built-in DACs, multiple finishes for speakers, new products every year. These are benefits to a niche market.
FWIW, products like AVI ADMs probably appeal more outside this niche market. AVI certainly think that. Most people think multiple boxes, cables and monsterous choice is a disadvantage when all you want to do is play music at high quality.
I disagree, but not because I think that active speakers are less 'niche' - I think they're more niche, since most people don't 'get' computer audio whilst far more 'get' CD, and actives require a PC or another source, so the same number of boxes as an MR-C503, say. Furthermore, you can't buy them in shops or on Amazon. How would you find out about ADMs, say, if you were just looking for 'a stereo'? What would you google for?
Anyway, what's niche in the first place is wanting to play music at high quality.
Well, i have a CDP an amp and pair of speakers (TT gone), 2 boxes, 2 speakers and 4 cables (pair ic's and a pair sc's).
To run AVI's you need a PC and a ATV or AEX, 2 boxes, 2 speakers and one cable, AVI users are better off by 3 cables.
We're in a period of "Hifi Forum Glasnost" are we not? So while i'm obviously looking to spark debate here (it's enjoyable, isn't that why we're on fora?) i'm not looking to start silly arguments or see people lose their jobs, thanks.
It's not active vs passive again, but old/established vs new/future tech and people's changing needs..
Formerly known as Ooh, Boots, etc etc...
Laptop... HTC One X....ATV3....ADM9Ts...Two German Shorthaired Pointers...
Possibly something to do with dealers not wanting to lose the massive proifits available on separates?
Presumably those who manufacture active speakers do so out of the kindness of their own hearts?
Common knowledge that, innit?
Formerly known as al7478...
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"Music will provide the light you cannot resist"
I'm not suggesting everyone buy actives, or that they're the solution for everyone, i just think the way tech is going, with most everyone owning a pc, tablet, and the younger generation being so tech savvy, that manufacturers will need to adapt to meet a growing demand for more streamlined and cheaper, pc based audio solutions. Which may marginalise the traditional seperate enthusiast further, will there be a point when the economies of scale and lack of demand mean they'll all but dissapear? Or become quite expensive?
I don't think you're quite on the money with economies of scale Max. The big manufacturers already benefit from them in precisely the same way that (e.g.) AVI do, except moreso. Yamaha, Onkyo, Denon, Marantz...they all turn out streamers, traditional two channel, multichannel, all-in-one systems. Take your pick. They already benefit from economies of scale beyond the dreams of the smaller companies out there and design expertise and capabilities most of us would gape at.
Streamlined and cheaper doesn't necessarily mean better - the ATV is a case in point. The ATV3 is the product the 2 should've been and the iPad, while a fine product, only offers 4:3 and not 16:9. So all is not rosy on the new tech front.
And Chebby is pretty much right; more people will buy some decent headphones (under, probably well under, £100) and a portable music player (or phone). In fact, I probably use my Touch more than anything these days while the Onkyo probably does more of a traditional amp job than anything else.
No, separates will be here for a while and box swappers likewise (and of course, they're not restricted to traditional hifi - I think the ADM's are about your third pair of speakers in around 18 months aren't they Max...?).
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Most people think multiple boxes, cables and monsterous choice is a disadvantage when all you want to do is play music at high quality.
Multiple boxes? You still have them iggle - by the time you've swapped out your CDP for your laptop, or handheld source, NAS, external HDD, they're still there!
My stereo? One CDP, one network receiver and two speakers. The TV has an optical into the amp and the blu-ray player has an HDMI into the TV. I can stream via DLNA to either the TV or the amp.
I think some people might see multiple boxes, cables and monsterous choice is a disadvantage, but playing music at high quality and a setup such as that is not a case of mutually exclusives at work.
I already had a laptop and iPhone so they don't count. I've reduced my box count by four, including the associated cables. That's a win.
Although I'm unlikely to ever buy any hifi separates again I would still be saddened if they were no longer being made.
They're in the same category as motor bikes or classic cars for me - I will never own one but I'm still glad they exist.
Is a Smartphone considered a box? If not then an ATV and pair of ADMs and you're good to go, if you also have an iPhone. Or perhaps a pair of passives and an amp with built in pre and DAC, and airplay, or some other app that'll enable streaming from a phone. It's the way it's going IMO.
Nothing wrong with box swapping if it's what you like to do then that's fine, i done it for a while and enjoyed it, but i've been working my way towards a setup like i have, with the best sound quality i've heard from the least boxes.
I'm on my 7th pair of speakers in almost exactly two years, RS, the first two i enjoyed for a while as i'd not heard much to compare against them and they were a novelty as i was only getting into hifi, though i soon tired of their brightness. The third pair i loved (Dynaudio DM2/7s) but had to sell as i needed cash, since then i've had three pairs of studio monitors, which were all pretty good and amazing value for money, though i was never really happy with any of them. Now i've got ADMs which are IMO a class above what i've had before and i'm happy, i may get a sub at some point.
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