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CnoEvil's picture
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RE: Are HiFi products luxury items?

chebby wrote:

Not in the real world evidently.

Here is what most people would recognise as a modest system...

http://www.tesco.com/direct/tesco-value-bb-211ep-boombox-black/215-7828.prd?pageLevel=&skuId=215-7828

That's like saying a Hobby Horse would suffice as a modest Showjumper.  :shifty:

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Are HiFi products luxury items?

CnoEvil wrote:

pauln wrote:

It's just going to become an argument about semantics now isn't it.

The nature of the question means it is always going to be fairly subjective and about semantics.

At the start of the 20th century, electricity in homes was a luxury.....I'm not sure that it would be considered so now. For people in isolated areas, a car could be argued to be essential, but would have been a luxury 90 years ago. 

Would an indoor toilet and hot and cold running water be considered a luxury?

What about soft toilet paper, which was a luxury in the 1940s, but would hardly be considered so now?

Surely the definition of what constitutes as a luxury must have changed over time?

 

I would argue that none of those things are essential so must be considered to be luxuries. One could argue that we in the Western World live a life of constant and unbridled luxury because so many non-essential things have become common-place. How could I manage without my freshly ground coffee in the morning?

One only has to get on a plane for a mere 7 hours and fly to, for instance, Qatar to see how luxurious our lives are when compared to the lives of the Bengali workers who are being paid £3 a day to build the stadiums for the 2022 football world cup and there is obviously a lot worse to see in other places.

Should the definition of luxury change from place to place in an arbitrary fashion or should it be fixed so as to apply equally the world over? Or do we need another word?

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RE: Are HiFi products luxury items?

CnoEvil wrote:

pauln wrote:

It's just going to become an argument about semantics now isn't it.

The nature of the question means it is always going to be fairly subjective and about semantics.

Very true.

I suppose we'd all agree that some hi-fi products are luxuries, not matter how you define the word (e.g. a certain Naim product). But quite where the line is between luxury hi-fi and what practitioners of the dismal science call 'normal' or 'inferior' products is so fraught with social and ideological complexities as to be practically undecidable.

:cheers:

Matt

The screen door slams, Mary's dress waves ...

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RE: Are HiFi products luxury items?

"Surely the definition of what constitutes as a luxury must have changed over time? "

It must have , even the free time of some in a society to create art , muisc and literature is a luxury , the fact that they are not engaged in endless labour for survial .

Someone mentioned fridges , most people would agree thats essential now but go back not too many decades and it was a cold shelf in the celler to keep your food , and a trip to the shop's every other day . The free time not involed in that treck is luxury time ?

Typing this on a Macbook  alot of people here have Mac's of one sort or another they cost maybe 2 or 4 times what an acer with the same guts would . Thats a luxury , or do you say the amount of time I spend on it with its better display / keyboard / track pad make it if not essential at least justified.

I would say the same for your Hi-Fi , the amount of time you spend listening to it in ratio to the amount of time you need to work to pay for it , the pleasure it brings means that it is justified. Like when Ugg was painting cavewalls instead of hunting there was a benifit that outwieghed the cost.

James

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RE: Are HiFi products luxury items?

pauln wrote:

I would argue that none of those things are essential so must be considered to be luxuries. One could argue that we in the Western World live a life of constant and unbridled luxury because so many non-essential things have become common-place. How could I manage without my freshly ground coffee in the morning?

One only has to get on a plane for a mere 7 hours and fly to, for instance, Qatar to see how luxurious our lives are when compared to the lives of the Bengali workers who are being paid £3 a day to build the stadiums for the 2022 football world cup and there is obviously a lot worse to see in other places.

Should the definition of luxury change from place to place in an arbitrary fashion or should it be fixed so as to apply equally the world over? Or do we need another word?

Your point is valid, and shows exactly why this is such a subjective debate.

I do believe that the definition of luxury changes from place to place......maybe if something becomes commonplace, it could be argued that it is no longer a luxury.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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When did Luxury become a bad word

When did Luxury become a BAD word??? 

 

Scrolling through the responses and the need to justify music, and by extenstion HiFi, as somehow being essential to daily survival, leads me to wonder why so many people don't want their hobby labeled as Luxury.

 

I thought a certain amount of luxury is what many (if not most) persons strive towards achieving. 

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RE: Are HiFi products luxury items?

CnoEvil wrote:

I do believe that the definition of luxury changes from place to place......maybe if something becomes commonplace, it could be argued that it is no longer a luxury.

How commonplace are your 'modest' £1000 - £1600 hi-fi systems? (Amongst all households and not just those containing a hi-fi enthusiast with sufficient disposable income.)

 

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RE: When did Luxury become a bad word

Ajani wrote:

When did Luxury become a BAD word??? 

Scrolling through the responses and the need to justify music, and by extenstion HiFi, as somehow being essential to daily survival, leads me to wonder why so many people don't want their hobby labeled as Luxury.

I thought a certain amount of luxury is what many (if not most) persons strive towards achieving. 

In your opinion, what do you have to send on a system that produces music,  for it to be labelled as a luxury?

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Are HiFi products luxury items?

All forms of entertainment are a luxury. Food, water and shelter are the only things that aren't. Some luxuries are justified based on your means - or what your wife lets you have.

 

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RE: When did Luxury become a bad word

Ajani wrote:

When did Luxury become a BAD word??? 

 

Scrolling through the responses and the need to justify music, and by extenstion HiFi, as somehow being essential to daily survival, leads me to wonder why so many people don't want their hobby labeled as Luxury.

 

I thought a certain amount of luxury is what many (if not most) persons strive towards achieving. 

 

Not sure its a bad word, but anything that is in vast excess to what you need I find a bit gross and it does make feel a bit sick when spend vaste amounts on goods when theres plenty of people starving or dying in the world that could be helped with that money. Even if I was a millionaire I would not fly fly first class that to me is a waste of money.

Actually I don't like too much luxury its makes you soft and dependent on it and you don't appreciate after a while anyway. I would not stay in 5 star Hotels either.

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RE: Are HiFi products luxury items?

MakkaPakka wrote:

All forms of entertainment are a luxury. Food, water and shelter are the only things that aren't. Some luxuries are justified based on your means - or what your wife lets you have.

 

I think there are a few more things than that like medicine, clothes and heating.

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RE: When did Luxury become a bad word

CnoEvil wrote:

Ajani wrote:

When did Luxury become a BAD word??? 

Scrolling through the responses and the need to justify music, and by extenstion HiFi, as somehow being essential to daily survival, leads me to wonder why so many people don't want their hobby labeled as Luxury.

I thought a certain amount of luxury is what many (if not most) persons strive towards achieving. 

In your opinion, what do you have to send on a system that produces music,  for it to be labelled as a luxury?

 

1 cent. I love music and would hate to imagine my life without it, but I still see it as a luxury. 

 

IMO, the joy I've received from my system outweighs what I've spent on it, but it's till a luxury. I could survive without it. 

 

Heck my TV, laptop and cellphone are all capable of playing music... And they too are luxuries... 

 

I don't see luxury as being something shameful. 

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RE: Are HiFi products luxury items?

chebby wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

I do believe that the definition of luxury changes from place to place......maybe if something becomes commonplace, it could be argued that it is no longer a luxury.

How commonplace are your 'modest' £1000 - £1600 hi-fi systems? (Amongst all households and not just those containing a hi-fi enthusiast with sufficient disposable income.)

I have no idea.....it would be an interesting survey.......Would it include every Apple product that is used for music, for example?

I proposed "commonplace" as one possible criteria to determine whether something is a luxury. 

If you see all hifi systems as a luxury, then it doesn't matter how little you spend on them.....but if you don't, then, £1k is imo modest (ie, Source/Amp/Speakers/Stands/Racks/Cables).

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: When did Luxury become a bad word

Ajani wrote:

1 cent. I love music and would hate to imagine my life without it, but I still see it as a luxury. 

In which case you see cost as having nothing to do with luxury, which I'm not sure I agree with.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Are HiFi products luxury items?

[/quote]

Should the definition of luxury change from place to place in an arbitrary fashion or should it be fixed so as to apply equally the world over? Or do we need another word?

[/quote]

I was going to leave this alone, but this is nonsense. Why does luxury have to have a fixed definition the world over? It's not a sacred word.

You accepted earlier that the perception of what is essential had changed, so why can't luxury be dependent on circumstance?

Take the word rich for example - is that fixed? A rich person in one country is not necessarily the same as one in another - or should there be a fixed value that applies to everyone, everywhere to define who is rich? It's just a word that helps people describe a concept in their world - wherever that might be. Language is just a tool for communication not some sacred, immovable entity. 

 

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