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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

cse wrote:

Lo Fi wrote:

Thing is some older listeners like me are used to a warmer sound like in the 60s era . So you buy some MA speakers like me and make them work how you like them to by choosing an amplifier that gives the sound you want be bright smooth or warm etc. I dont know if its an age thing or hearing thing but I find all equipment to be quite bright even the equipment that reviewers say is smooth or warm.

Totally agree. I find most contemtporary HIFI too bright. In the home environment, it is this hard-edged, brittle sound, especially with classical, that I am keen to move away from. However, I don't want a turntable and valves. You here detail when you audition, so you are attracted to a product and then over time (sometimes months) you start to find it all too taxing. Not sure that it would be much of a problem if I just listened to pop/rock. I have come to the conclusion though, that auditions are of little purpose, unless you are buying a complete system fron scratch. Will seek out detailed specific reviews in future, to guide me better - preferably not What HIFI ones !

Define contemporary hi-fi?

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

cse wrote:

Totally agree. I find most contemtporary HIFI too bright. In the home environment, it is this hard-edged, brittle sound, especially with classical, that I am keen to move away from. However, I don't want a turntable and valves. You here detail when you audition, so you are attracted to a product and then over time (sometimes months) you start to find it all too taxing. Not sure that it would be much of a problem if I just listened to pop/rock. I have come to the conclusion though, that auditions are of little purpose, unless you are buying a complete system fron scratch. Will seek out detailed specific reviews in future, to guide me better - preferably not What HIFI ones !

IMO.  The likes of Sugden, Harbeth, Spendor Classic Series and Sonus Faber will give you the sound that you're after.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

CnoEvil wrote:

IMO.  The likes of Sugden, Harbeth, Spendor Classic Series and Sonus Faber will give you the sound that you're after.

Yes but those brands are beyond most people's bank balance.  

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

plastic penguin wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

IMO.  The likes of Sugden, Harbeth, Spendor Classic Series and Sonus Faber will give you the sound that you're after.

Yes but those brands are beyond most people's bank balance.  

Sonus Faber Toys and the smaller Spendor Classics can be picked up at sensible money (especially ex-dem)......and second hand Sugdens are reasonably affordable. If the will to succeed is there, it can be achieved.

Audio Note is considered a highend brand, but they make speakers starting at £350......it is all too easy to rule stuff out because of perceived reputation.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

CnoEvil wrote:

plastic penguin wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

IMO.  The likes of Sugden, Harbeth, Spendor Classic Series and Sonus Faber will give you the sound that you're after.

Yes but those brands are beyond most people's bank balance.  

Sonus Faber Toys and the smaller Spendor Classics can be picked up at sensible money (especially ex-dem)......and second hand Sugdens are reasonably affordable. If the will to succeed is there, it can be achieved.

I know - I agree but not everyone is prepared to ex-dem or s/hand. Just with a limited budget the best compromise is the usual suspect around the sub-£1000 mark. In addition those brands, such as Harbeth, Sugden, Sonus Faber have limited outlets, whereas Arcam, Marantz, MA, Focal, Kef, ProAc etc etc can be picked up pretty much most places.

The same problem has hit Creek, Exposure, MonoPulse, Usher, ATC, Lavardin.... This is one thing that frustrates me.

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

plastic penguin wrote:

I know - I agree but not everyone is prepared to ex-dem or s/hand. Just with a limited budget the best compromise is the usual suspect around the sub-£1000 mark. In addition those brands, such as Harbeth, Sugden, Sonus Faber have limited outlets, whereas Arcam, Marantz, MA, Focal, Kef, ProAc etc etc can be picked up pretty much most places.

The same problem has hit Creek, Exposure, MonoPulse, Usher, ATC, Lavardin.... This is one thing that frustrates me.

If you are someone like Cse, who clearly loves his Classical music, is not new to Hifi, and is totally frustrated by the way a lot of modern kit sounds......this is one (possible) sensible solution.

 

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

It is definately modern equipment where the problem lies some of my cds are from 70s and they were fine on my old Mission Cyrus speakers but dont sound so good now. Of course the other way of looking at it is that modern equipment reveals more detail that could not be heard before.
I actually find classical violin etc to sound fine, but some female pop singers are shrill.

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

I think a lot of the modern (budget) equipment is set up to sound quite bright, it has showroom appeal but can be fatiguing over extended periods.

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

Lo Fi wrote:
It is definately modern equipment where the problem lies some of my cds are from 70s and they were fine on my old Mission Cyrus speakers but dont sound so good now. Of course the other way of looking at it is that modern equipment reveals more detail that could not be heard before. I actually find classical violin etc to sound fine, but some female pop singers are shrill.

By the sounds of it the recording is as much to blame as the equipment. Certainly what I've found.

If it is brighter then the only solution is to buy old s/hand amps and cdps (70s and 80s).

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

Hi PP take your point but some of my fairly recent violin concertos and some pop music sound absolutely fantastic on my system but as I say some older cds sound too bright and shrill. Unfortunately due to my age I dont get many recent recordings especially as I have never even heard of the artists and a lot of classical is quite old. I have the Bach Tocatta and Fugue which was originally recorded in 1956 they dont seem to record this type of music often.

Cant win them all but I would say this, its better to have some really great pieces of music rather than all the music sounding dull and lifeless.

Obviously I will never buy any really bright kit, I know some say that MA is bright but its not compared with a lot of other speakers I have heard.

To a certain extent it is hard to get equipment that produces great detail without showing the flaws in recording but when you get a first class recording the equipment really shines through.

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

plastic penguin wrote:

Define contemporary hi-fi?

Is this a serious question? Obviously, i mean those brands/items that are for sale at you local HIFI dealership.

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

CnoEvil wrote:

IMO.  The likes of Sugden, Harbeth, Spendor Classic Series and Sonus Faber will give you the sound that you're after.

Thanls. Those are definately the brands that I will look out for. I like the idea of the Spendor Classic Series or Harbeth, but i've never heard Sonus Faber or Sugden. Where should I start?

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

cse wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

IMO.  The likes of Sugden, Harbeth, Spendor Classic Series and Sonus Faber will give you the sound that you're after.

Thanls. Those are definately the brands that I will look out for. I like the idea of the Spendor Classic Series or Harbeth, but i've never heard Sonus Faber or Sugden. Where should I start?

Hi Cse, this is what I would do.

1. Have a rough idea of budget

2. Choose speakers big enough for room size

3. Check each brand's website to get an idea of range, and especially where the dealers are.....ring if necessary

4. Check prices, reviews and forum feedback

5. Start the demo process, where the winners are preferably brought back for a home demo.

 

Here are some links:

Sugden http://www.sugdenaudio.com/stockists.htm

Harbeth http://www.harbeth.co.uk/uk/index.php?section=products&page=wheretobuy&continent=Europe

Spendor http://www.spendoraudio.com/HTML/dealers.html

Sonus Faber (Absolute Sounds are the distributor) http://www.absolutesounds.com/nearest_dealer.php

 

Further info:

- http://www.hificorner.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=spendor

- http://www.hificorner.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/index/?limit=30&manufacturer=149&q=harbeth+

- http://www.jordanacoustics.co.uk/amplifiers.php?manufacturer=Sugden&value=2

- http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?manufacturer=sonus+faber

 

Bargains can be had with ex-display, B Stock, ex-dem and second hand from a reputable dealer (who takes trade-ins).....Mac usually has a good grasp of where the bargains are. If you start a thread on Sugden / Harbeth / Spendor, you will get good feedback, especially if you give an idea of where you live.

Hope this helps

Cno

 

 

 

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

Lo Fi wrote:

Hi PP take your point but some of my fairly recent violin concertos and some pop music sound absolutely fantastic on my system but as I say some older cds sound too bright and shrill. Unfortunately due to my age I dont get many recent recordings especially as I have never even heard of the artists and a lot of classical is quite old. I have the Bach Tocatta and Fugue which was originally recorded in 1956 they dont seem to record this type of music often.

Cant win them all but I would say this, its better to have some really great pieces of music rather than all the music sounding dull and lifeless.

Obviously I will never buy any really bright kit, I know some say that MA is bright but its not compared with a lot of other speakers I have heard.

To a certain extent it is hard to get equipment that produces great detail without showing the flaws in recording but when you get a first class recording the equipment really shines through.

Catch 22. Everyone, it seems, demand more insight, clarity and detail but don't want any of the forwardness that goes with it. I suppose system matching is (possibly) more essential than perhaps 30 years ago.

Personally speaking I've got no real issues with brightness. My only mmm is with some recordings sound a little mechanical, generally the remastered CDs.

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RE: Arcam A19 vs A28

CnoEvil wrote:

Bargains can be had with ex-display, B Stock, ex-dem and second hand from a reputable dealer (who takes trade-ins).....Mac usually has a good grasp of where the bargains are. If you start a thread on Sugden / Harbeth / Spendor, you will get good feedback, especially if you give an idea of where you live.

Hope this helps

Cno

Thanks again CnoEvil. I live in suffolk. However, I don't really want to audition any more, as I find the whole process misleading. I don't really trust my judgements in a dealership environment, where there is always a certain amount of pressure/expectation. My room is small, about 13ft long 9ft wide.

 

 

 

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