Ok will leave them playing for a bit. Im very skeptical of burn in though- the q300 and epos treble never improved to my ear, whereas r100 was smooth and understated out the box. And of course that is with the marantz.
Source at demo was marantz cd6004. Thing is, people recommend the ls50 with audiolab stuff which is notoriously cold and bright, so i have my doubts as to whether it's the Source. And on the off chance that it is, bang, another expensive upgrade to see to.
Arcam A19 - Kef R100's - Marantz NA7004
Hifi is a strange game, and you often have to just work through all the possibilities in order to rule them out.
Some speakers take more running in than others, so there is still hope......please let us know how things go.
"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again." André Gide
I'm a firm believer of new speakers burn-in or run in.
If you're looking for strange cat where hi-fi is concerned, then I am 'it'. Lived for many years with smooth sounds of Arcam - almost locked into a comfort zone. Yet it is about spending time with a new set-up - some have a "instant impact" while others will grow on you over a period.
When I purchased the Leema it hit me between the eyes out of the box. However, it didn't. On the surface it sounded impressive but over a period of around two months, using the same CDs, hearing something different I hadn't heard before. So different brands "grow" on you in very unique ways.
Amp: Leema Pulse; Source: Naim CD5i-2, Denon 260MKII, Pro-ject XP I; Speakers: PMC TB2i
Formerly known as plastic penguin
Hmm true, good points.
I suppose it's less that the treble is lacking in quality, more that it's a markedly more dominant characteristic than with the r100s. The upper mid range and lower treble is more in your face and louder. As you say, perhaps burn in will have an effect. Sevenoaks did raise eyebrows when i bought them actually saying ''now THESE really need a long burn in'''
When I heard the LS50 and R300.......the LS50 sounded a little more refined.......but the LS50 were well used and the R300 were new, except for less than 24 hours play.
Speakers will get smooth sounding over time. I'm actually going to replace my Klipsch RF-62 IIs because the highs are more rolled off than before. I actually prefer a leaner sound with extended highs. I thought there was something wrong with my amplifier, so I borrowed my friend's Pioneer Elite receiver and the highs were still rolled off. My Klipschs still sound great but it has gotten smoother, fuller and less lean. I even bought expensive Chord speaker cable to help make the sound thinner but still got the same full and smooth sound.
Tastes change over time. I use to have a Rega Brio 3 which was warm sounding and similar sounding to a Pioneer Elite receiver. However, the warmness colours the sound too much and some sounds do not sound "right" or accurate. Now, my current amp so much more neutral sounding yet retaining the musicality of my old Rega.
USB->Hegel HD2->Coaxial->Onkyo A-9070->Klipsch RF-62 II
I really didnt like the of my LS50's when I first got them, in fact I put them up for sale. A week later there was certainly an improvement (far less forward) and now I am very happy with them.
I swapped back to my Kef Q300's recently and they sounded very muddy in comparison, so they will be going on ebay soon.
I would also look at positioning and room accoustics before moving them on.
Sonos - Primare I30 - Kef LS50
Ah ok that's encouraging. Been doing family stuff this weekend so not had much chance to further listen to them. What i have gathered though is that they're fantastically dynamic with a rich and enveloping sound. But yes, for my tastes, at least at the moment, they're just too forward and aggressive in the upper mids and lower treble. Will try and get some burning in- not always easy in shared house.
One thing i dont understand though, surely burn in doesn't alter the sound signature of a speaker? Forward sounding highs in this case. I thought it was just loosening up of the woofer, leading to tighter bass? Do tweeters really change at all?
The biggest annoyance withHIFI is always tha same thing - a piece of your kit sounding too forward. I had the same problem with a Densen CD player that I lived with for 4 years, gradually disliking the sound more and more. Initially, I suppose, I had been impressed with the level of detail, but over time the brightness of the presentation wore me down. I even got rid of certain CD's that I thought (mistakenly) unlistenable. Eventually, I 'downgraded' to a Marantz Pearl lite SACD. This has much less initial pressence, but plays nearly all music adequately and enjoyably, but without the overkill on excitement. I would try and return the speakers (if you can) and reclaim your first purchase. If you have to spend a lot of time 'burning in ', it usually means that it doesn't match eaither your system or your ears.
CSE - yeah, know what you mean. I can imagine it being a common problem.
Spent some more time with the LS5O's...just don't like them at all. Not gelling with them and they arent growing on me. I remember listening to the R100's and literally smiling when the music played, tapping feet along to it. I finally thought to myself ''ah, I can actually enjoy music again rather than over analysing it or wincing''. With the LS50's it's like being on the verge of wincing the entire time and I feel all tensed up. For a laugh I put on some drum and bass - not enjoyable to listen to at all. While the sound may change from burn in, I really can't see it being dramatic, the basic sonic character will remain, so think I'll call it a day there and try to return them on Tuesday.
On the subject of their returns policy though, they do say that they exchange immaculate items within 7 days of purchase, with no clause stating multiple returns aren't permitted. There must have been times when customers have done it more than once in a row and you'd hope that being a chain they may show some leniency. Moreover, it's not like they will lose the £800 I've paid to the store as it's just an exchange. And of course if they still have the original R100's I left with them on Saturday morning, that makes it all the more convenient for them as they won't have to order another fresh pair in. Anyway, fingers crossed. And hey, the £200 credit note could be put towards a better streamer in due course
I think you are making the best decision in the long run. I would, however, try and get the £200 back rather than just a credit note, afterall you are a loyal and important customer.
Oops, already emailed them and said I understood the £200 would need to be a credit note. Oh well.
I have R100 for a month now and Arcam A-19 from yesterday and I have to say that is a great combo!
I didnt listen to LS50 so cannot comment on them but was wondering when you say that you see a big problem with bass on R100 - do you have them on stands +30cm from the back wall?
R100 do sound a bit overblown in bass department, BUT it is very rerly and on some songs; in 98% of cases they are not overblown, just punchy and very well controlled bass (just as WHF said in review, I totally agree with them on that).
Or is it that you are so much annoyed from this rare songs in wich bass is overblown?
Maybe I will also make some demos with LS50 in the future, just to hear what is the fuss all about, but I have to say that they have to be massively better to switch to them from R100, esspecially with their looks, I just cannot go pass that pink-ish cone.... but never say never...
Marantz SR6008 - KEF R100 - T series
Popcorm A-210 - PS3 - Panasonic 55ST50
Find this thread interesting and puzzling. Having owned Arcam amps and heard many others from the DIVA and Alpha Range (inc. FMJ A1, I wouldn't describe them as forward. Have to confess I've not heard the A19 yet, but I'd be surprised if it was radically different from the others - if anything, generally, Arcam has a slightly recessed midrange. I would say the midband is one of the sweetest sounding around.
Can you not try other speakers such as Dynaudio or Q Acoustics?
It might be the recording too. If you can get Taylor Swift to sound great on your system, then your system is well balanced. Otherwise, your system is too bright and forward sounding.
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