101 posts / 0 new
Last post
matt49's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 07/04/2013 - 12:07
Posts: 1943
RE: Accuphase near London

CnoEvil wrote:

matt49 wrote:

The Lavardin was a bit smoother and more musical. Sweeter strings and voices. Good dynamics. Still a bit edgy. No remote control.

The Lavardin needs its own very expensive S/Cs to sound at it should, but that adds considerably to the cost

 

S/Cs = speaker cables?

"The amps work with many types of cable, but of all the options we tried, they clearly sounded best with Lavardin's own designs, which cost a hefty £1055 for a pair of interconnects and £2505 for a set of single-wire speaker cable" ( http://www.whathifi.com/review/lavardin-c62).

So the cables together come to more than half the price of the amp.  ROFL

 

The screen door slams, Mary's dress waves ...

CnoEvil's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 21/08/2009 - 18:01
Posts: 12052
RE: Accuphase near London

matt49 wrote:

S/Cs = speaker cables?

"The amps work with many types of cable, but of all the options we tried, they clearly sounded best with Lavardin's own designs, which cost a hefty £1055 for a pair of interconnects and £2505 for a set of single-wire speaker cable" ( http://www.whathifi.com/review/lavardin-c62).

So the cables together come to more than half the price of the ampROFL

Yes.....and Yes.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

Macspur's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 51 min ago
Joined: 03/05/2010 - 06:56
Posts: 2004
RE: Accuphase near London

matt49 wrote:

oldric_naubhoff wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

and is it necessarily a feature of Class A?

no. for instance Accu and AF make AB amps too. the Primare A32 is AB. and the Marantzes are AB as well.

Oldric, thanks for the technical insights.

The way I understood Cno's question was: do all Class A amps necessarily use current feedback topology? (Pls correct me if I'm wrong, Cno).

The Accuphase E260/E360/E460 (and ditto the older '50 range) are Class AB. The only true Class A integrated they make is the E560, which on current exchange rates would be somewhere in the region of £8.5K.  :cry:

 

 Unless you're lucky enough to find a second hand Class A E550.

To be honest, if funds allowed and I had a more suitable listening room, I wouldn't hesitate to buy an E560... imo afterall it's probably an amp for life!

Mac

Electrocompaniet EMC1UP, Accuphase E350, Harbeth SHL5 Siltech 25th anniversary 33i XLR, Auditorium 23 SC, HiFi Racks Podium Reference rack.

matt49's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 07/04/2013 - 12:07
Posts: 1943
RE: Accuphase near London

Macspur wrote:

Unless you're lucky enough to find a second hand Class A E550.

Good point, Mac. Emphasis on lucky though!

Macspur wrote:

To be honest, if funds allowed and I had a more suitable listening room, I wouldn't hesitate to buy an E560... imo afterall it's probably an amp for life!

Mac

I think I may ping off some e-mails to dealers in the Netherlands and Germany and see if any have an E560 on demo. It'd be worth the trip.

Matt

The screen door slams, Mary's dress waves ...

Macspur's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 51 min ago
Joined: 03/05/2010 - 06:56
Posts: 2004
RE: Accuphase near London

matt49 wrote:

Macspur wrote:

Unless you're lucky enough to find a second hand Class A E550.

Good point, Mac. Emphasis on lucky though!

Macspur wrote:

To be honest, if funds allowed and I had a more suitable listening room, I wouldn't hesitate to buy an E560... imo afterall it's probably an amp for life!

Mac

I think I may ping off some e-mails to dealers in the Netherlands and Germany and see if any have an E560 on demo. It'd be worth the trip.

Matt

Great idea... would love to join you!

Mac

Electrocompaniet EMC1UP, Accuphase E350, Harbeth SHL5 Siltech 25th anniversary 33i XLR, Auditorium 23 SC, HiFi Racks Podium Reference rack.

matt49's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 07/04/2013 - 12:07
Posts: 1943
RE: Accuphase near London

Macspur wrote:

Great idea... would love to join you!

Mac

That would be wonderful. Now you've got me thinking about Belgium. It could be done in one day by car. I'll look into it.

Matt

The screen door slams, Mary's dress waves ...

oldric_naubhoff's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 11/03/2011 - 23:54
Posts: 1166
RE: Accuphase near London

CnoEvil wrote:

matt49 wrote:

The way I understood Cno's question was: do all Class A amps necessarily use current feedback topology? (Pls correct me if I'm wrong, Cno).

That is more what I was getting at, but it wasn't very clear....anyway, it's all a bit above my pay grade.  :doh:

no. it's up to designer's discretion voltage or current feedback. or no feedback at all. but class A due to inherent lower distortion would normally need less feedback than AB or D class.

Macspur's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 51 min ago
Joined: 03/05/2010 - 06:56
Posts: 2004
RE: Accuphase near London

matt49 wrote:

Macspur wrote:

Great idea... would love to join you!

Mac

That would be wonderful. Now you've got me thinking about Belgium. It could be done in one day by car. I'll look into it.

Matt

Excellent... just let me know... passport all in order!

Mac

Electrocompaniet EMC1UP, Accuphase E350, Harbeth SHL5 Siltech 25th anniversary 33i XLR, Auditorium 23 SC, HiFi Racks Podium Reference rack.

matt49's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 07/04/2013 - 12:07
Posts: 1943
RE: Accuphase near London

CnoEvil wrote:

What (if any) other brands use this [EDIT: current feedback topology]?

I think the Tom Evans amps are current feedback designs. Certainly the preamp 'The Vibe' claims to be:

http://www.iglooaudio.co.uk/product/tom-evans-the-vibe-and-psu/

Not sure about the 'Linear A' power amp, though it looks impressive: hybrid Class A / valve, 25WPC.

Anyone know anything about these? Igloo Audio in Tunbridge Wells stocks them. Might be worth a trip.

The screen door slams, Mary's dress waves ...

Macspur's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 51 min ago
Joined: 03/05/2010 - 06:56
Posts: 2004
RE: Accuphase near London

matt49 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

What (if any) other brands use this [EDIT: current feedback topology]?

I think the Tom Evans amps are current feedback designs. Certainly the preamp 'The Vibe' claims to be:

http://www.iglooaudio.co.uk/product/tom-evans-the-vibe-and-psu/

Not sure about the 'Linear A' power amp, though it looks impressive: hybrid Class A / valve, 25WPC.

Anyone know anything about these? Igloo Audio in Tunbridge Wells stocks them. Might be worth a trip.

Sorry Matt, don't know that make, but Peter from Igloo is a very nice guy to deal with... demoed some ATC SCM11's there a couple of years ago.

Mac

Electrocompaniet EMC1UP, Accuphase E350, Harbeth SHL5 Siltech 25th anniversary 33i XLR, Auditorium 23 SC, HiFi Racks Podium Reference rack.

Babur72's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 25/11/2007 - 17:52
Posts: 207
RE: Accuphase near London

Hi Mac,

Just thought i'd provide you with an update regarding the Accuphase DP-800/DC-801 demo.

Spent a good few hours listening to some of my CD/SACD's & left mightily impressed. The Accuphase pair were partnered with Esoteric pre, mono-block power-amps. & Usher Diamond-tweetered Be-10 speakers. Hadn't heard such organically presented detail & dynamics from digital playback in quite a long time. And neither had i heard Usher speakers so relatively easy on the ear & non-fatiguing compared to my previous encounters.

Even had a brief opportunity to compare the Accuphase transport & DAC's oft described near-analogue sound to an actual & a not quite commensurable high-end analogue front-end. And came away feeling that the Accuphase pairing's performance - while not entirely having as much body, presence & weight as the opposing combination of tone-arm, turn-table & phono-stage - was by no means disgraced by the comparison.

The only potential fly in the ointment so far being the inability to trace it's provenence ie. Dealer/Distributor it was bought from. Aside from the EU 230volt/60Hz input-power designation.

Not wanting to be left stranded if a fault were to develop later, i resolved to obtain some assurances from Accuphase's EU distributor that they would be prepared to assist me(inevitably at my own cost) in rectifying or repairing any technical problems which may arise.

Regards.

Babur.

matt49's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 07/04/2013 - 12:07
Posts: 1943
RE: Accuphase near London

Babur72 wrote:

The only potential fly in the ointment so far being the inability to trace it's provenence ie. Dealer/Distributor it was bought from. Aside from the EU 230volt/60Hz input-power designation.

Not wanting to be left stranded if a fault were to develop later, i resolved to obtain some assurances from Accuphase's EU distributor that they would be prepared to assist me(inevitably at my own cost) in rectifying or repairing any technical problems which may arise.

Babur,

That's a funny coincidence. I went to demo an Accuphase E560 this evening, also of uncertain provenance (well, actually privately imported from Japan, so without warranty etc etc). Caveat emptor.

I'm not sure if it was me or the amp, but I came away feeling ever so slightly underwhelmed. When I say it might have been me, I think my ears may still be recovering from 3 hours of Springsteen at Wembley on Saturday.

Anyway, the system was impeccable:

Linn Akurate DS (playing ALAC files) > Accuphase E560 > Harbeth Super HL5s.

First things first: the amp does many things right. Everything has a lovely warm glow. People use the word 'golden' to describe the Accuphase sound, and that's pretty much right. But there's also as much detail as you could wish for. Strings and cymbals have a glorious sweep. Percussion strikes are very proper. Leading edges are nicely marked. This is an amp you could listen to for hours and come away feeling invigorated by the sonic sensation.

The bass is very rich and round, but also precise. You can hear the wobble as the resonance of a kettle drum resonates away.

The sound stage seemed good. Though here the negatives start. I've heard a more 'holographic' presentation from the Musical Fidelity AMS35i and Devialet D-Premier. Also I felt the dynamics weren't quite as exciting as the MF and Devialet. (I should say that I heard the Devialet through  Harbeth Super HL5s too, and I plan to hear the MF through the same next week.)

So in the end what left me slightly -- and I stress slightly -- underwhelmed was the lack of drive and excitement. The Accu seemed wonderfully suave and tremendously detailed.  But ...

I should also mention that because this is a Japanese grey import, it was using a step-down transformer. Whether that makes any sonic difference, I wouldn't know. 

Matt

The screen door slams, Mary's dress waves ...

CnoEvil's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 21/08/2009 - 18:01
Posts: 12052
RE: Accuphase near London

matt49 wrote:

Anyway, the system was impeccable:

Linn Akurate DS (playing ALAC files) > Accuphase E560 > Harbeth Super HL5s.

I should also mention that because this is a Japanese grey import, it was using a step-down transformer. Whether that makes any sonic difference, I wouldn't know. 

Matt

That certainly looks like a really lovely system......though I can't help feeling that the step-down transformer may have taken its toll, all be it a small one.

 

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

matt49's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 07/04/2013 - 12:07
Posts: 1943
RE: Accuphase near London

CnoEvil wrote:

That certainly looks like a really lovely system......though I can't help feeling that the step-down transformer may have taken its toll, all be it a small one.

Yes, I don't have sufficient technical knowledge to have a view on that, but it's a possible area of weakness.

Matt

The screen door slams, Mary's dress waves ...

Babur72's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 25/11/2007 - 17:52
Posts: 207
RE: Accuphase near London

Hi Matt,

Interesting to know your views of your E560 audition.

I'd be surprised if the step-down transformer didn't have an effect on dynamics, imaging & sound-staging.

As far as my DP-800/DC-801 audition was concerned the fact that it was an EU 230v/60Hz specified model seemingly had little effect on it's performance. Probably due to the relatively small currents/voltages involved.

As opposed to your own E560 demo. where the amount of current drawn from the mains-supply & it's conversion into output power is that much greater & more critical.

Regards.

Babur.

Pages

Log in or register to post comments