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RE: Accuphase near London

matt49 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

That's about as arduous as a tour of a Harem.  :grin:

Well said. However ...

... harem tours are all very well, but they don't go on forever (more's the pity). Eventually you have to settle down with your chosen one. And the prospect of choice hangs over the tour. Hence the arduousness.  Wink

Just get the one that titillates you the most........Simples.  >)

:poke:  AMS 35i  :shifty:

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RE: Accuphase near London

CnoEvil wrote:

matt49 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

That's about as arduous as a tour of a Harem.  :grin:

Well said. However ...

... harem tours are all very well, but they don't go on forever (more's the pity). Eventually you have to settle down with your chosen one. And the prospect of choice hangs over the tour. Hence the arduousness.  Wink

Just get the one that titillates you the most........Simples.  >)

:poke:  AMS 35i  :shifty:

It's on the list, don't worry  :exmark:

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RE: Accuphase near London

matt49 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

matt49 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

That's about as arduous as a tour of a Harem.  :grin:

Well said. However ...

... harem tours are all very well, but they don't go on forever (more's the pity). Eventually you have to settle down with your chosen one. And the prospect of choice hangs over the tour. Hence the arduousness.  Wink

Just get the one that titillates you the most........Simples.  >)

:poke:  AMS 35i  :shifty:

It's on the list, don't worry  :exmark:

Well, if nothing else, the AMS will keep you warm at night!

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RE: Accuphase near London

matt49 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

matt49 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

That's about as arduous as a tour of a Harem.  :grin:

Well said. However ...

... harem tours are all very well, but they don't go on forever (more's the pity). Eventually you have to settle down with your chosen one. And the prospect of choice hangs over the tour. Hence the arduousness.  Wink

Just get the one that titillates you the most........Simples.  >)

:poke:  AMS 35i  :shifty:

It's on the list, don't worry  :exmark:

It's just my none to subtle tactic for expanding the "35 Club".  :twisted:

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RE: Accuphase near London

Macspur wrote:

matt49 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

matt49 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

That's about as arduous as a tour of a Harem.  :grin:

Well said. However ...

... harem tours are all very well, but they don't go on forever (more's the pity). Eventually you have to settle down with your chosen one. And the prospect of choice hangs over the tour. Hence the arduousness.  Wink

Just get the one that titillates you the most........Simples.  >)

:poke:  AMS 35i  :shifty:

It's on the list, don't worry  :exmark:

Well, if nothing else, the AMS will keep you warm at night!

Quite handy where Cno lives.

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RE: Accuphase near London

Just remembered I didn’t post notes of an amp demo last week. Not worth starting a new thread so I’ll post it here, as it fits into the same price bracket as Accuphase, MF AMS35i etc, and visitors to this thread might be interested.

I compared two systems, both sourced from Linn Majik DSM playing ALAC files.

System 1: Linn Majik DSM > Linn Akurate 2200 > PMC 23s

System 2: Linn Majik DSM* > Rega Osiris > PMC 23s

This was one of those night-and-day demos. The Akurate system (1) had great dynamics, dug deep into complex tracks, and gave a great sense of ‘being there’. But it’s not a system I could live with. There was obvious distortion on cymbals and a general sense of graininess everywhere (graininess? granularity? you know what I mean). The upper middle register of pianos felt pinched. I first assumed this was down to the speakers. So far I have a hate-hate relationship with PMC, but every dealer I go to seems to want to use them for demos.

The switch to the Rega Osiris (system 2) was remarkable. No distortion at the top end; generally a less tiring, less digital, but also more exciting sound. Where I heard an edginess to male vocals with the Akurate (listening to Springsteen’s Hammersmith ’75 live recording of ‘Rosalita’), with the Osiris it disappeared. The upper mid-range is perhaps a bit too forward, and maybe there’s a bit less darkness around the notes than in the Linn system, but the gain in overall musicality and loss of graininess is dramatic. In the notes I wrote at the time I used the words ‘smile’ and ‘goosebumps’. Pianos were still not 100% natural, which might be the PMCs' fault, but having heard the PMCs on the end of the Osiris I could almost grow to like them.

* piping from the DSM’s DAC into the Osiris’s preamp, so avoiding the digital preamp in the DSM. 

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RE: Accuphase near London

matt49 wrote:

Just remembered I didn’t post notes of an amp demo last week. Not worth starting a new thread so I’ll post it here, as it fits into the same price bracket as Accuphase, MF AMS35i etc, and visitors to this thread might be interested.

I compared two systems, both sourced from Linn Majik DSM playing ALAC files.

System 1: Linn Majik DSM > Linn Akurate 2200 > PMC 23s

System 2: Linn Majik DSM* > Rega Osiris > PMC 23s

This was one of those night-and-day demos. The Akurate system (1) had great dynamics, dug deep into complex tracks, and gave a great sense of ‘being there’. But it’s not a system I could live with. There was obvious distortion on cymbals and a general sense of graininess everywhere (graininess? granularity? you know what I mean). The upper middle register of pianos felt pinched. I first assumed this was down to the speakers. So far I have a hate-hate relationship with PMC, but every dealer I go to seems to want to use them for demos.

The switch to the Rega Osiris (system 2) was remarkable. No distortion at the top end; generally a less tiring, less digital, but also more exciting sound. Where I heard an edginess to male vocals with the Akurate (listening to Springsteen’s Hammersmith ’75 live recording of ‘Rosalita’), with the Osiris it disappeared. The upper mid-range is perhaps a bit too forward, and maybe there’s a bit less darkness around the notes than in the Linn system, but the gain in overall musicality and loss of graininess is dramatic. In the notes I wrote at the time I used the words ‘smile’ and ‘goosebumps’. Pianos were still not 100% natural, which might be the PMCs' fault, but having heard the PMCs on the end of the Osiris I could almost grow to like them.

* piping from the DSM’s DAC into the Osiris’s preamp, so avoiding the digital preamp in the DSM. 

Hi Matt,

I'm not surprised about your findings of the Linn amp... their amps just don't do it for me.  Interested to hear your thoughts on the Osiris though... I was very tempted by the matching Isis CDP before settling on the EMC1UP.

I look forward to read your findings on Electrocompaniet amps later... I have demoed the integrated you are going to try, but not the pre/power.

Mac

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RE: Accuphase near London

Macspur wrote:

I'm not surprised about your findings of the Linn amp... their amps just don't do it for me. 

.....nor me. 

I found the Rega better, but still not worth the asking price.

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RE: Accuphase near London

CnoEvil wrote:

Macspur wrote:

I'm not surprised about your findings of the Linn amp... their amps just don't do it for me. 

.....nor me. 

I found the Rega better, but still not worth the asking price.

Yes, the retail price is very toppish: the dealer had one S/H for £4K, though that's also a bit ambitious given that Rega don't have a track record at this price level (which I'd have thought would affect resale values).

Also for my money it's a remarkably ugly piece of kit. I like what they've done with the preamp stage though.

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RE: Accuphase near London

Hi Matt ,

It looks like you are enjoying yourself on HiFi journey Smile

I see you opinion of PMC speakers has been softened as the equipment upstream get better , this is no surprise to me because PMC speakers are very good at just reproducing exactly what is fed into them , you hear far less of the speaker and a lot more of what is upstream and because of this quality  they are almost the perfect speaker to audition amps and sources with .

As you probably already know I am as passionate about Electrocompaniet amplification as CNO is about the AMS mainly because my amps have given me so much pleasure over the years and I would like other people to experience it too .

If you manage to audition the Electro amps with PMC speakers you will be as far as I know the first person on this forum to hear this combination and if your love of music is as important to you as it is to me then you are in for a truly magical experience .

There are some important points to watch out for , the main one is to make sure the dealer has warmed up the amps for at least one hour before critical listening preferably longer also ask him to use the balanced connections when connecting the pre/ power amps also the source if possible .

Here is a  review of the ECI5 amp you are going to hear to give you an idea of what you are letting yourself in for .

http://dagogo.com/electrocompaniet-eci-5-mkii-amplifier-review

The EC4.7 / AW120 combo should sound the same but with more of everything especially power , the WPC rating may be the same on both amps but the AW120 alone has a power supply that is more than double the size of the ECI5 at 1300 VA  and is a dual mono design .

Having said all this I really hope you like them :pray:  Smile

 

 

 

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RE: Accuphase near London

Electro wrote:

Hi Matt ,

It looks like you are enjoying yourself on HiFi journey Smile

I see you opinion of PMC speakers has been softened as the equipment upstream get better , this is no surprise to me because PMC speakers are very good at just reproducing exactly what is fed into them , you hear far less of the speaker and a lot more of what is upstream and because of this quality  they are almost the perfect speaker to audition amps and sources with .

As you probably already know I am as passionate about Electrocompaniet amplification as CNO is about the AMS mainly because my amps have given me so much pleasure over the years and I would like other people to experience it too .

If you manage to audition the Electro amps with PMC speakers you will be as far as I know the first person on this forum to hear this combination and if your love of music is as important to you as it is to me then you are in for a truly magical experience .

There are some important points to watch out for , the main one is to make sure the dealer has warmed up the amps for at least one hour before critical listening preferably longer also ask him to use the balanced connections when connecting the pre/ power amps also the source if possible .

Here is a  review of the ECI5 amp you are going to hear to give you an idea of what you are letting yourself in for .

http://dagogo.com/electrocompaniet-eci-5-mkii-amplifier-review

The EC4.7 / AW120 combo should sound the same but with more of everything especially power , the WPC rating may be the same on both amps but the AW120 alone has a power supply that is more than double the size of the ECI5 at 1300 VA  and is a dual mono design .

Having said all this I really hope you like them :pray:  Smile

Thanks, Electro, great review!

The dealer has promised to warm the amps up properly. I note what you say about balanced connections.

Matt

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RE: Accuphase near London

 

Electro wrote:

Having said all this I really hope you like them :pray:  Smile

I do like them ... a lot ...  :clap:

But the journey’s by no means over.

An interesting afternoon with the utterly charming and professional Electrocompaniet salesman at their London HQ (in an unpromising industrial estate in Hanwell). The one surprising feature of the demo was that the kit was piped through a pair of imposing but old and shabby-looking speakers. He said they were MAs that the EC engineers had modified to achieve a totally flat frequency range that would show the EC electronics at their best. I didn't feel like arguing ...

The electronics were:

System 1: EMC1 UP CDP > ECI5 Mk II integrated

System 2: EMC1 UP CDP > EC4.7 preamp > AW120 power amp

System 1 had great dynamics and a wide and deep soundstage (especially noticeable with choral music). Not a hint of distortion. Voices and acoustic instruments seemed true, though there was a hint of sibilance, and some brass and violins seemed a little shrill. Perhaps ‘metallic’ sums it up. I also felt that the bottom end, though true and precise, was a little weak. But overall a lovely presentation, thoroughly musical, and nothing grainy. A sound I could live with.

System 2 had the same overall tonal character, but was markedly better. There was still some coloration in the upper middle, but the sibilance wasn’t there, and there was more detail in the mid range, more space and more emotion. Whether it’s worth the extra £2.5K? Not sure.

 

In comparison, my little study set-up has a darker tone and a very limited soundstage. (The speakers are sitting inside a bookcase after all.) But instruments do sound more natural.

I think I need to listen to this kit again. It’s certainly still on the list.

 

 

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RE: Accuphase near London

matt49 wrote:

 

Electro wrote:

Having said all this I really hope you like them :pray:  Smile

I do like them ... a lot ...  :clap:

But the journey’s by no means over.

An interesting afternoon with the utterly charming and professional Electrocompaniet salesman at their London HQ (in an unpromising industrial estate in Hanwell). The one surprising feature of the demo was that the kit was piped through a pair of imposing but old and shabby-looking speakers. He said they were MAs that the EC engineers had modified to achieve a totally flat frequency range that would show the EC electronics at their best. I didn't feel like arguing ...

The electronics were:

System 1: EMC1 UP CDP > ECI5 Mk II integrated

System 2: EMC1 UP CDP > EC4.7 preamp > AW120 power amp

System 1 had great dynamics and a wide and deep soundstage (especially noticeable with choral music). Not a hint of distortion. Voices and acoustic instruments seemed true, though there was a hint of sibilance, and some brass and violins seemed a little shrill. Perhaps ‘metallic’ sums it up. I also felt that the bottom end, though true and precise, was a little weak. But overall a lovely presentation, thoroughly musical, and nothing grainy. A sound I could live with.

System 2 had the same overall tonal character, but was markedly better. There was still some coloration in the upper middle, but the sibilance wasn’t there, and there was more detail in the mid range, more space and more emotion. Whether it’s worth the extra £2.5K? Not sure.

 

In comparison, my little study set-up has a darker tone and a very limited soundstage. (The speakers are sitting inside a bookcase after all.) But instruments do sound more natural.

I think I need to listen to this kit again. It’s certainly still on the list.

 

 

Matt,

I've got a feeling, with those speakers, you may not have heard the best

Electrocompaniet has to offer.

Mac

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RE: Accuphase near London

Macspur wrote:

matt49 wrote:

 

Electro wrote:

Having said all this I really hope you like them :pray:  Smile

I do like them ... a lot ...  :clap:

But the journey’s by no means over.

An interesting afternoon with the utterly charming and professional Electrocompaniet salesman at their London HQ (in an unpromising industrial estate in Hanwell). The one surprising feature of the demo was that the kit was piped through a pair of imposing but old and shabby-looking speakers. He said they were MAs that the EC engineers had modified to achieve a totally flat frequency range that would show the EC electronics at their best. I didn't feel like arguing ...

The electronics were:

System 1: EMC1 UP CDP > ECI5 Mk II integrated

System 2: EMC1 UP CDP > EC4.7 preamp > AW120 power amp

System 1 had great dynamics and a wide and deep soundstage (especially noticeable with choral music). Not a hint of distortion. Voices and acoustic instruments seemed true, though there was a hint of sibilance, and some brass and violins seemed a little shrill. Perhaps ‘metallic’ sums it up. I also felt that the bottom end, though true and precise, was a little weak. But overall a lovely presentation, thoroughly musical, and nothing grainy. A sound I could live with.

System 2 had the same overall tonal character, but was markedly better. There was still some coloration in the upper middle, but the sibilance wasn’t there, and there was more detail in the mid range, more space and more emotion. Whether it’s worth the extra £2.5K? Not sure.

 

In comparison, my little study set-up has a darker tone and a very limited soundstage. (The speakers are sitting inside a bookcase after all.) But instruments do sound more natural.

I think I need to listen to this kit again. It’s certainly still on the list.

 

 

Matt,

I've got a feeling, with those speakers, you may not have heard the best

Electrocompaniet has to offer.

Mac

Mac,

you may be right, though bear in mind this wasn't just a dealer or distributor: it was the Electrocompaniet UK subsidiary, and the chap who presented the kit to me was an EC employee. And he very clearly said that EC engineers had fettled the speakers to get the best possible response. I can't see why EC would want to shoot themselves in the foot by showing their kit with a duff pair of speakers.

puzzled. :doh:

Any thoughts?

Matt

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RE: Accuphase near London

Very puzzling indeed... did you convey your thoughts to the guys?

If so, what was their reaction?

Was it a specially acoustically treated listening room?

I'll be interested to see what Electro has to make of it!

Mac

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