Have your say & ask the experts!

Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

53 replies [Last post]
quadpatch's picture
Offline
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 866

This is my first headphone review in a while. I got to play with this one all over Christmas so I've been a happy bunny. See here for my full thoughts:

http://noblehifi.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/alpha-dog-review.html

__________________

Hifi: Audiolab M-DAC Audiolab 8200P Tannoy DC6T SE 

Headphone: Q701HP100HE500, M80TH900Mad DogD7000DT880M100K550TH600 

DAC: E7U100rPACModi/Magni120DsHP-A8DAC2 HGC, BDP 105EUEHP 02DiDAC 

dalethorn's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Dec 2011
Posts: 1067
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

I like the comment in the review that says it's easier to hear the difference going from a better sound to a lesser sound (to hear what you're missing) than vice-versa (to hear what you're gaining). This phenomenon goes a ways toward explaining why most double-blind tests of cables or DACs or 44 khz WAV versus 96 khz WAV fail.

__________________

MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, FAD Pandora IV/VI, Beyer DT1350/T51p, v-moda M100/XS, Beyer A200p/Microstreamer/FiiO E07k DAC/amps, PA2V2 amp.

OneBoxSystem's picture
Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 392
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

That's fighting talk Dale. I like it. 320 kbps MP3 vs. FLAC/WAV/Apple Lossless. Now there's another debate, along with 24 bit vs. 16 bit.

dalethorn's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Dec 2011
Posts: 1067
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

OneBoxSystem wrote:
That's fighting talk Dale. I like it. 320 kbps MP3 vs. FLAC/WAV/Apple Lossless. Now there's another debate, along with 24 bit vs. 16 bit.

Heh heh. All for a worthy cause (if I could just figure out which one).

__________________

MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, FAD Pandora IV/VI, Beyer DT1350/T51p, v-moda M100/XS, Beyer A200p/Microstreamer/FiiO E07k DAC/amps, PA2V2 amp.

quadpatch's picture
Offline
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 866
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

dalethorn wrote:

I like the comment in the review that says it's easier to hear the difference going from a better sound to a lesser sound (to hear what you're missing) than vice-versa (to hear what you're gaining). This phenomenon goes a ways toward explaining why most double-blind tests of cables or DACs or 44 khz WAV versus 96 khz WAV fail.

I think we spoke about this a bit in another post and since then I try to work it into most of my reviews. I likened it before to moving to a faster or slower PC. Faster is always easier, your brain just accepts the changes and adapts without you noticing much. Perception's a b****! Tongue

__________________

Hifi: Audiolab M-DAC Audiolab 8200P Tannoy DC6T SE 

Headphone: Q701HP100HE500, M80TH900Mad DogD7000DT880M100K550TH600 

DAC: E7U100rPACModi/Magni120DsHP-A8DAC2 HGC, BDP 105EUEHP 02DiDAC 

fr0g's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
Posts: 2876
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

dalethorn wrote:

I like the comment in the review that says it's easier to hear the difference going from a better sound to a lesser sound (to hear what you're missing) than vice-versa (to hear what you're gaining). This phenomenon goes a ways toward explaining why most double-blind tests of cables or DACs or 44 khz WAV versus 96 khz WAV fail.

 

They fail because there is no audible difference. Unless you happen to have the hearing of a mosquito. 44 KHz will give you a perfect analogue reconstruction up to 22 KHz. No human can hear that high frequency.

 

So, it explains nothing of the sort.

__________________

“Out beyond ideas of wrong and  right, there is a field.

I'll meet you there."

 

 

dalethorn's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Dec 2011
Posts: 1067
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

fr0g wrote:
They fail because there is no audible difference. Unless you happen to have the hearing of a mosquito. 44 KHz will give you a perfect analogue reconstruction up to 22 KHz. No human can hear that high frequency. So, it explains nothing of the sort.

Actually you're clearly wrong without a doubt. You cannot say logically that you know beyond any exclusion or exception that "there is no audible difference". You can only say that you haven't heard it, or what tests you've read about don't report it. Too many people make absolutist statements that fail on their face, and you're doing it here.

Edit: I should add that's there's a world beyond frequency - phase and impulse, etc. The 44 khz of the CD/WAV track isn't the same as 44 khz in analog. The WAV track is a sampling in bits (1408 kilobits/second), and the bits can't account for everything on the extremely complex analog sound waves, since those waves aren't single tones, and they're often of a complexity such that only highly trained people can hear certain things in those sounds in the analog domain, before it even gets to digital.

So for people who can't hear differences that are easily measured - great!! Save your money and avoid building a large pricy collection of 96k or 192k or (gasp) 384k tracks. But when you build an expensive collection of 44 khz tracks and then discover later that you can hear the difference after all, it could be a serious and expensive disappointment.

__________________

MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, FAD Pandora IV/VI, Beyer DT1350/T51p, v-moda M100/XS, Beyer A200p/Microstreamer/FiiO E07k DAC/amps, PA2V2 amp.

pauln's picture
Online
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 430
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

dalethorn wrote:

fr0g wrote:
They fail because there is no audible difference. Unless you happen to have the hearing of a mosquito. 44 KHz will give you a perfect analogue reconstruction up to 22 KHz. No human can hear that high frequency. So, it explains nothing of the sort.

Actually you're clearly wrong without a doubt. You cannot say logically that you know beyond any exclusion or exception that "there is no audible difference". You can only say that you haven't heard it, or what tests you've read about don't report it. Too many people make absolutist statements that fail on their face, and you're doing it here.

Yes indeed, too many people do make absolutist statements.

And I think the expression you were attempting to use is "fall flat on their face" Of course, only highly trained people would notice the difference.

For more information see here: http://www.superherodb.com/powers/Enhanced_Hearing/

 

__________________

On the road: HP Elitebook 8540w, Sennheiser HD650, Bose Computer Mini Monitors.

Home: Denon DBP-2010, Humax, Panasonic Plasma, Monitor Audio ASB-2, AKG K240 Studio, Audio-GD NFB 12, Audio Pro Addon T8 active monitors, definitely no fancy cables.

fr0g's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
Posts: 2876
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

dalethorn wrote:

fr0g wrote:
They fail because there is no audible difference. Unless you happen to have the hearing of a mosquito. 44 KHz will give you a perfect analogue reconstruction up to 22 KHz. No human can hear that high frequency. So, it explains nothing of the sort.

Actually you're clearly wrong without a doubt. You cannot say logically that you know beyond any exclusion or exception that "there is no audible difference". You can only say that you haven't heard it, or what tests you've read about don't report it. Too many people make absolutist statements that fail on their face, and you're doing it here.

Edit: I should add that's there's a world beyond frequency - phase and impulse, etc. The 44 khz of the CD/WAV track isn't the same as 44 khz in analog. The WAV track is a sampling in bits (1408 kilobits/second), and the bits can't account for everything on the extremely complex analog sound waves, since those waves aren't single tones, and they're often of a complexity such that only highly trained people can hear certain things in those sounds in the analog domain, before it even gets to digital.

So for people who can't hear differences that are easily measured - great!! Save your money and avoid building a large pricy collection of 96k or 192k or (gasp) 384k tracks. But when you build an expensive collection of 44 khz tracks and then discover later that you can hear the difference after all, it could be a serious and expensive disappointment.

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding of the Nyquist-Shannon theorum.

 

There are indeed some HD tracks that sound better than their 44 KHz equivalent. I used to buy them.

But then one day I did an experiment. I downsampled (Audacity) to 44 KHz.

I then used the ABX comparison tool in Foobar to ABX them.

And they were identical.

You would find the same. As would any human ears.

__________________

“Out beyond ideas of wrong and  right, there is a field.

I'll meet you there."

 

 

dalethorn's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Dec 2011
Posts: 1067
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

fr0g wrote:
You seem to have a misunderstanding of the Nyquist-Shannon theorum. There are indeed some HD tracks that sound better than their 44 KHz equivalent. I used to buy them. But then one day I did an experiment. I downsampled (Audacity) to 44 KHz. I then used the ABX comparison tool in Foobar to ABX them. And they were identical. You would find the same. As would any human ears.

You speak like a wild-eyed religious cultist:  "You seem to have a misunderstanding of .... blah blah blah ...", as though the theorem were the word of God. No, it isn't, and it cannot claim to encompass *every* possible aspect of sound the brain can hear, although it may do that in someone's mind.

You need to learn more and be less of a Calvinist, because your ferver for debunking is missing a lot of data. You know the data is deliberately discarded at ADC time, yet you argue hopelessly that "it doesn't matter". It's a *lazy* argument by persons who are too tired or apathetic to pursue that which others recognize to be important.

__________________

MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, FAD Pandora IV/VI, Beyer DT1350/T51p, v-moda M100/XS, Beyer A200p/Microstreamer/FiiO E07k DAC/amps, PA2V2 amp.

fr0g's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
Posts: 2876
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

dalethorn wrote:

fr0g wrote:
You seem to have a misunderstanding of the Nyquist-Shannon theorum. There are indeed some HD tracks that sound better than their 44 KHz equivalent. I used to buy them. But then one day I did an experiment. I downsampled (Audacity) to 44 KHz. I then used the ABX comparison tool in Foobar to ABX them. And they were identical. You would find the same. As would any human ears.

You speak like a wild-eyed religious cultist:  "You seem to have a misunderstanding of .... blah blah blah ...", as though the theorem were the word of God. No, it isn't, and it cannot claim to encompass *every* possible aspect of sound the brain can hear, although it may do that in someone's mind.

You need to learn more and be less of a Calvinist, because your ferver for debunking is missing a lot of data. You know the data is deliberately discarded at ADC time, yet you argue hopelessly that "it doesn't matter". It's a *lazy* argument by persons who are too tired or apathetic to pursue that which others recognize to be important.

 

Pseudo-intellectual babble. Not to mention Ad hominem.

There is no cult belief, there is simply the science that has been repeatedly shown to be true. If someone shows it not to be and comes up with a new set of necessary figures, then I will listen to that. It isn't likely though.

 

The "ferver" as you call it, isn't for debunking, it's against people spreading nonsense as fact.

 

Believe what you like though, it's your money.

 

 

By the way, if the theorum was "The word of God" rather than scientifically proven, then I wouldn't mention it, as it would almost certainly be BS.

__________________

“Out beyond ideas of wrong and  right, there is a field.

I'll meet you there."

 

 

OneBoxSystem's picture
Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 392
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

Fr0gface, you only post here to argue with dalethorn. Just leave it, thanks.

fr0g's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
Posts: 2876
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

OneBoxSystem wrote:

Fr0gface, you only post here to argue with dalethorn. Just leave it, thanks.

 

Erm no.You are mistaken, Chip.

__________________

“Out beyond ideas of wrong and  right, there is a field.

I'll meet you there."

 

 

fr0g's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
Posts: 2876
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

fr0g wrote:

OneBoxSystem wrote:

Fr0gface, you only post here to argue with dalethorn. Just leave it, thanks.

 

Erm no.You are mistaken, Chip. I posted here as, 1. I was interested in the thread, 2. Dale is posting something which I disagree with.

I have no issue with you or your furry friend, but I do have an issue with the con that is HD music...

__________________

“Out beyond ideas of wrong and  right, there is a field.

I'll meet you there."

 

 

dalethorn's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Dec 2011
Posts: 1067
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

fr0g wrote:
Pseudo-intellectual babble. Not to mention Ad hominem. There is no cult belief, there is simply.....

Ad hominem applies when attacking a person, but since you're a debunker spewing specious dogma, it doesn't apply to you.

There is simply what - a human mind/brain that's much smarter than the pseudo-intellectual rationalizations of a debunker. You can continue posting about what I can't hear and what others can't hear, but you're talking only to people who want to believe you - possibly because they believe what they see on the telly.

I've grown out of that froggie.

__________________

MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, FAD Pandora IV/VI, Beyer DT1350/T51p, v-moda M100/XS, Beyer A200p/Microstreamer/FiiO E07k DAC/amps, PA2V2 amp.

OneBoxSystem's picture
Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 392
RE: Alpha Dog - review (3D printed headphone mod)

fr0g wrote:

fr0g wrote:

OneBoxSystem wrote:

Fr0gface, you only post here to argue with dalethorn. Just leave it, thanks.

 

Erm no.You are mistaken, Chip. I posted here as, 1. I was interested in the thread, 2. Dale is posting something which I disagree with.

I have no issue with you or your furry friend, but I do have an issue with the con that is HD music...

 

Just adding to your post count Fr0ggie? 1. don't call me Chip, Fr0gface; and 2. I don't know what you mean by furry friend. It's not Chip 'N' Dale you know.....