Just to chime in on the fans etc. messing with sound quality of 0s and1s.
My most favouritist music is on a 64gb usb pendrive which is plugged directly into the Belkin router AND YES YOU GUESSED IT. If I play from the lap or netbook it makes no difference at all.
Thank you for banning those muppets. Why do we have to have people like that in life let alone on here?
Apple Lossless - ATV3 - AVI ADM 40 also ATV3 into AVI ADM 9T [my wife's system]
and Grado SR80i
This is actually no different to the age old argument in hi-fi circles about whether cd transports sound the same i.e does "bits in " equal "bits out" in the digital domain,, and if not, why not. It has long been accepted that not all cd /digital transports sound the same, i.e. 'bits in," does not necessarily equal "bits out", indeed, transports have been engineered to sound different, but still people continue to argue that as nothing is apparently added or subtracted, the output of a digital transport must be the same as the data on the disk. Whatever the reason for this, and there could be many e.g. political posturing; lack of transparency in the system to notice the difference, a lack of willingness to actually, a lack of exposure to high quality audio equipment to be able to notice a difference (i.e. not knowing what t listen for) or a genuine lack of being able to hear a difference, which does not mean the difference doesn't exist.
Jitter has long been discussed as one of the reasons why digital transports sound difference, not that there has really been any consensus of what the term really means! Within audio circles, jitter refers to the timing of the digital data stream of ones and zeros - problems arise owing to the need for the said stream to be converted back into music with the same timing as when the content of the disk is first digitised. Failure to do so leads to timing errors in the PS range, otherwise known as jitter. As I said, digital transports can be designed to sound different, and much of this effect is achieved by focusing manufactured jitter on particular spectral frequencies of the S/PDIF signal – easy to pick up though an oscilloscope, and more commonly through the sound of the equipment.
Not all jitter is a consequence of the S/PDIF signal – much is a consequence of the digital processor's word clock i.e. The point at which the DAC converts the digital signal into an analogue output. Timing errors s in the clock produce voltage errors in the DAC's analogue output signal, degrading performance. The reclocking by the input receiver of the incoming clock from the S/PDIF data stream establishes the timing reference for the processor, hence not all signals to the said processor will be 'equal' across different digital transports. The level, and therefore impact upon sound quality of word-clock jitter is a consequence of many variables and interactions, including the level of jitter from the transport, residual RF hash from the transport (very common problem with PC components but some of which can be eliminated by low pass filtering) S/PDIF interface, the degree of filtering, the DAC's intrinsic jitter etc etc - whilst some transport jitter is filtered by the input receiver's PLL, anything above the jitter attenuation cutoff frequency (normally around 25 KHZ) is passed, degrading / changing the sound quality.
In the world of electrical engineering, there is no doubt whatsoever, that not all digital transports sound the same, but any notion that jitter only has a detrimental effect on sound quality haste be treated with some caution – as this may actual result in a less 'true' sound but one which the listener enjoys more. As for the Mac Mini, it is fantastic at what he does but it is not a tool designed for audio use – indeed, many of it's components are low rent even by tropical PC standards – and if you compare the internal and external build quality and sophistication of components between it and expensive audio players, it will be found baby wanting. And yes, there will be sound differences based upon it's interaction with DACS but in many cases you would need revealing and transparent (therefore costly) amplifies and speakers to notice the difference, and also, be attuned to know how the differences are manifested, which few people actually are, besides, requirements differ in all things in life, what is good enough for one person may not be for someone else but that doesn't mean each has to dismiss the other's point of view. All electronics products are a series of compromises, a PC tends to have more than audio-alone products when used as a hi-fi, so, no, a £700 PC can not compete with a £8000 CD transport but it was never intended to. As for my personal usage, I use a USB DAC into my Mac Mini and I feel this is the way forward in the future to address some of the challenges - but certainly not all - I have discussed but USB has a long way to go yet!
A very comprehensive statement there.
One thing you have certainly got wrong is " hereford costly) amplifies and speakers". Not true at all, pro monitors are nothing like the cost of 'hifi' kit and yet they are happily used in the music production process before it ever gets to cd etc., etc.
A very comprehensive statement there.
And one thing that you've got wrong is the assumption that just because inexpensive pro monitors are available, that the monitors used by pros are all inexpensive.
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Or that those pros all go home and listen to active studio monitors.
I bow before your pedantry JD.
I did indeed not wholly state that NOT ALL PROS USE INEXPENSIVE MONITORS but then I didn't think I needed to. Still life continues, happily, to be a constant learning journey.
Not pedantry really, just correcting an oft-repeated generalisaiton that pro audio is cheap and domestic hifi is a rip off.
To be fair, hifi is generally more expensive than pro audio. I have had two audio interfaces, both retailing at less than £400 new, but try to find a hifi equivalent of preamp, DAC and headphone amp at those prices.
Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts
find a hifi equivalent of preamp, DAC and headphone amp at those prices.
Not quite sure what your reply is intimating nor why you have a problem with me stating that transparent equipment is costly, it is. There was no reference to it being "pro" gear, indeed, it is clear, given the context ( ie sufficently revealing to identify the sometimes subtle - though sometimes obvious depending on the nature - changes/differences caused by jitter) the assumption is home hi-fi. Genuinely baffled by your response!
This is why this site is hacking me off more and more.
You ask a viable question about a product and people see it as an excuse to argue about whose is bigger and better! I wasnt asking for a P****ng match about whether a £500 product is better than or can match a £20,000 system asthetically or sonically.
I wasnt asking about whether a NAS is better than a PC or vice versa.
Yet time and time again these threads are taken off course and hijacked by people who seem to think their system is the best or the be all and end all. Some of us dont want to use a NAS or have a roomfull of boxes for one reason or another.
The macmini s more than likely going to sit as an aesthetically pleasing small system, connected only to a DAC and Headphone Amp. Does that mean that this system will be rubbish and not worthy to play music or in fact listen to music??
For those of you who answered my original query with regards to the MacMini how to connect it to a DAC and whether it can be purely controlled with an iPad.......thankyou.
For those who just see it as an excuse to argue and bicker......Get a Bloody life!!
No wonder we have lost so many knowleadgable individuals of this site!!
Very well put Jason and I couldn't agree with you more.
My Cheap Cheerful Setup
LG 50PA650T ,SKY , Sony BDP-S4100 ,Now TV & Sound Organisation AV Rack
Bose Soundlink, Shuffle With Bose SIE2 Sport Headphones
Rather the exception than the rule.
As for the MGL, do you not need to add the optional headphone amp board and also a case? Then assemble when it all arrives? Fully completed components were implied in my statement
As you are 'genuinely baffled' I shall try to make things clearer, for your benefit and anyone elses [jd?].
Transparent enough product DO NOT have to be costly. SOME sound engineers and recording studios use comparatively inexpensive monitors to determine what gets on to the cd. That doesn't mean ALL pro gear is inexpensive in relation to domestic hi-fi but that is the tendancy, as far as I am aware. As someone else said, those very same engineers, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM, go home and listen domestically to pro monitors that once again are generally less expensive than their hi-fi equivalent.
So no absolute statements made or was ever intended in this or my previous post. Unfortunately I had forgotten that if you refer to pro gear in a post you have to be very very careful how you say something. Otherwise, as has happened on this thread, there is always going to be someone who will jump to the wrong conclusion/misinterpret your post and generally acccuse you of being absolutist, WHEN YOU HAVEN'T BEEN.
So in short, you don't need gear to be expensive to be transparent and revealing you just need the right sort of gear.
My apologies for the length and complexity of this post, I am not having a go at you. I am merely attempting to give a sufficiently full and non-absolutest response so that some muppet doesn't chime in with a needless criticism based on their own predispositions.
Which is not close to what I wrote JD.
We have had this discussion before and it is a shame that you still criticise posts because of what other people say and not what has been said in the post you criticise. You may well get jarred off with certain things but that shouldn't determine your reaction to individual posts that are not saying what you think you are.
Thank you for your time.
Your post implied you couldn't get a 'hifi' dac/pre/headphone amp at £400 (to me at least).
Just pointing out that you can, and those were just three examples OTTOH.
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