And what about all those 5 star, award winning Rega products? Rega have never advertised in any magazines.
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Looked at logically, if a manufacturer is getting poor reviews it makes more sense for it to advertise to ensure its products are before the readers, whereas a company getting non-stop five star reviews doesn't really need to advertise, as the editorial is doing all the work for it. Unless it's very stupid...
I don't follow that logic. Not saying it doesn't happen in some cases, but I'd say it's the exception. Surely there's force in what I suggested of strong advertising complementing strong reviews? Examples that spring to mind being Cyrus, Naim, Spendor, QED, Chord. As you'll have seen, I'm not suggesting there's anything sinister in that, but I do think attempts to deny the obvious are more damaging than not.
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It states the Pioneer DVD upscaling is just as good as the Oppo though. And it states the Oppo is no better at DVD upscaling than budget Blu-ray players.
Not to my eyes.
In the review or your experience with the Oppo?
My experience of demoing the Oppo.
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Yes, as you'll have seen I already mentioned Rega and ATC and said that I'm sure there's many others.
On the flipside, what companies are there that get consistently poor reviews (mainly 3 stars, 4 at best say) but advertise heavily?
I'm not saying it's logical: I'm sure there are still manufacturers and distributors as well as cynics and lapdogs who believe there's a link between advertising and editorial. There isn't.
No, you're not suggesting anything in the first half of the sentence that you're not insinuating in the second.
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I've seen the relationship between advertising and editorial at WHF. It basically consists of:
EDITORIAL: OK so this is what's in the magazine this month, in case you want to target your sales pitch
ADVERTISING: What's HDMI?
I generalise, but not too much.
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Perhaps you didn't read my earlier post then. I've not insinuated anything. I set out exactly what I thought and why in my earlier post. I also set out exactly why I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. You may also see that it was in response to a conspiracy theory.
I don't know why you pretend to misunderstand what I was referring to when I referred to your argument not being logical. Perhaps you can come up with a few examples of companies that advertise heavily despite erring consistent three star reviews; none springs to mind. Maybe Sharp for a while.
Pro-ject, KEF and Arcam are the ones that spring to mine.
EDIT - though 'consistent' is arguable, admittedly.
Sounds like utter incompetence to me then. I would have thought it's basic stuff to contact a company and say we're featuring a great review of your product in the next mag, would you like to place an advert? If they don't do that they should be replaced. From a conversation I had with a chap from Henleys I'm confident the ad department isn't that incompetent.
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Oi, that's Irishist.
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Sounds like utter incompetence to me then. I would have thought it's basic stuff to contact a company and say we're featuring a great review of your product in the next mag, would you like to place an advert?
Except they don't know whether the review will be good or bad, because EDITORIAL don't actually tell ADVERTISING.
I'm not saying there aren't any, just that I think there's fewer examples than of 5 star products from companies with no advertising revenue. This supports my argument re a symbiotic relationship but in no way suggests reviews are based on advertising.
Anyway, Pro-ject turntable reviews: 8 5-star, 5 4-star so consistently high. (I know they do more than turntables, which don't do as well but if I search all reviews by brand it doesn't display the star rating, grrr)
Kef speakers: 4 5-star incl an award winner, 3 4-star, 2 3-star and 2 2-star, so a mixed bag, but recent excellent reviews.
Arcam: not many hifi reviews of late, but rdac and rcube did very well at least initially and my recollection / impression is the av amps got high reviews until after many months the problems couldn't be ignored.
Conspiracy theories aside, isn't the solution the same as always: get an audition?
Anyone considering an upgrade that is remotely interested in sound and picture performance will extensively research their purchase, compile a shortlist, and get out there and demo the kit.
Anyone willing to look at multiple reviews would at the very least shortlist the Oppo. After that, they're on their own.
Fair enough. If that's the case, what I say is overly simplistic, but only ever so slighlty. Surely it's easy to imagine the call to Henley Designs: 'so we've given a WHF award to Audio Technica, two to Roksan, given a five star review to Olive, several to Pro-Ject. Would you like to take out 6 months of insude front covers or failing that some column adverts near the buyer's guide? I'm sure you'll be sending in some new kit in that time and if you keep up your recent high standards then the ads and reviews will give some great exposure.'
Is this really so shocking? I don't see how it diminishes the integrity of the mag in any way.
To reiterate what John just said... Hardly, given that they – the advertising staff – don't know what products are being reviewed, let alone how well those products have fared, until they see the printed magazine.
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