In my view, a $1,500 Blu-ray player would be overkill in any system, even if you have a dedicated cinema room.
Why, if it could be proven to sound better than cheaper players?
Most are saying that picture quality of Bluray players are all extremely similar. And that the only differences can be subtle ones. Why then, after adding an Oppo 103 to my own system, does it look like I have a new PJ? The difference I could show you, most people will pay an extra £500 for.
David @Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, Coventry
Mitsubishi HC7000 / Oppo BDP103 / Audiolab 8200AP / Rotel RMB1575 / kick ass speaker system
But you're talking about a £500 (rather than £1,500) BDP connected to a projector.
If, as certain tech review websites state, the Oppo 103 is a "reference" BDP, what would one gain from spending three times as much? Even the 105 is just twice the 103's price. Is there a more expensive BDP you'd recommend above either current Oppo models?
I was simply stating my opinion (which I stand by). I think spending that much on a Blu-ray player is a false economy. You may well disagree, but I think if you've got a spare £1,500 to spend on kit, it would be more wisely spent on other components.
Besides, as Ben observes, what would this hypothetical £1,500 Blu-ray player be?
Reference Status full stop, or Reference Status at its price point? I'm guessing Reference Status at its price point.
My analogy wasn't based on any price. It could be a £500 player, it could be a £1500 player. If I could demonstrate a clearly better looking picture at £1500 compared to a £1000 player, people would buy it.
If a source component can be better, it's not a false economy to spend money on it. If people think that 1080p is 1080p, they're not going to believe for one minute that a better player can look better - that's understandable. They have to be shown the difference to believe.
Theres a lot of factors at play here though.
As I understand it, though I'm happy to be corrected, when the websites in question award a product reference status, it means reference status full stop. There's only ever one product in a particular category (i.e. all TVs, all BDPs, or whatever else) listed as reference status at any one time.
If there was a £1,500 BDP that was demonstrably the best available and offered a significant upgrade over less expensive players, I'd agree that it would be worth recommending as part of a very high end system (a high end projector would be a prerequisite). But we're dealing in hypotheticals here, and the poster contemplating spending £1,500 on a BDP is looking to buy at this particular moment, in the real world.
On that basis, I stand by my advice... It's certainly not worth spending that kind of money on a BDP. If I qualify that statement with the words "right now," perhaps we can find some common ground.
That said, I'm not convinced a £1,500 BDP that blows current high end players out of the water will ever exist. In my view, the law of diminishing returns is greater on BDPs that other AV equipment (I'm not talking digital cables here, as I don't want to start that debate on an already heated thread). I consequently still think the poster contemplating such a purchase would get better value upgrading other kit.
It all depends on context and individual needs as to what one values. However, as a general rule of thumb, I'd agree with what you say, as most bluray players are excellent performers at a very low price point. Hence, with a good bluray transfer and all additional processing off, I doubt most people would see any real difference in the picture performance of something like a budget LG or Tosh bluray player and a high end Denon/Marantz, Oppo or whatever. Processing to deal with poorer transfers is where differences will start to appear, as well as feature sets, as well as processing of DVDs. Sound quality is more subjective, but will also differ, as will build quality. However, I'd agree that the difference between a decent budget bluray player and a higher end player are less marked than the difference between, say, a £300 AV receiver and £600 AV receiver.
AV: LG 50PM670T, Yamaha RX-V2067, Oppo BD103EU(MR-BD/DVD), Tosh EP30 HD-DVD, Apple TV, Humax HDR-T2 PVR, M-S Premiere(5.1)+ BK Gemini II, MS 360, PS3 (+PlayTV), Wii U, Harmony Touch, BDI Avion II 8928
Hi-Fi: Cyrus 6XP, 6SE, Stream X2 & Dac X+, Oppo BD83-SE SACD/DVD-A, Pro-ject Genie Mk III + Pro-ject Phonobox II + Project Speedbox II, PMC Twenty 21s (+ PMC stands), Firestone Cute Beyond + Supplier, AKG Q701s (+ RA 3m headphone cable), Sennheiser HD650s (+RA HC2 3m headphone cable).
Hi-Fi Cables: Van Damme LC UPOFC (4x2m) + interconnects (x2); DMN solid core interconnect, Van den Hull Hybrid Mk III, CA Pacific interconnects (x2) RA Powerkords (Reference, Classic); RA Ultrapurifier 8way block
Duaplex, of course there are great UK-based audio equipment manufacturers. No would would disagree.
Sad that you can't see the UK slant though. Something so obvious from over here. Every action that they take doesn't need to be "pro-UK" to support the idea that they have some skin in the game with some of these companies. Far too many UK products getting reviewed on this site, just feeding the your market. Why don't you go read the review on the Oppo95 - they talk more about Cambridge Audio than they do about the Oppo unit that they're reviewing. Nearly all the accessories and seperates on this site come from UK companies. Sure, there are exceptions I know that, so you don't need to go and find one exception and bring it to me. I won't be entertained or feel like you somehow put a hole in my statement.
And btw, I have a Chord QuteHD DAC, Furutech RCA's and XLR's, Cary Audio SLP98 Tube Pre-Amp, Krell 402e Power Amp, B&W 802 diamonds, and Pure 10 awg Silver Core Speaker cables...that's my downstairs system. The upstairs system has a Panasonic Plasma, Mcintosh MC205 5-channel into 4-CM9s, and a CM Center Channel.
So no I don't have Bose, but you're little set-up probably sounds like Bose compared to either of mine...toodles
A UK magazine with a UK website reviewing UK products? It's a EDITED outrage I tell you!!!
Seriously though, what point are you trying to make? Why would I, a UK resident, want to look at a magazine or website that reviewed a load of products I can't buy?
No signature worth mentioning...
Oh you're so modest, aren't you!
My Home Cinema Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90
Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H
Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router
"The World's Most Trusted Tech Reviews"
A little bit of hyperbole never hurt anyone, it's still primarily a UK mag, which explains why some markets have their own edition of the mag (India does, I think).
1) He made an adult decision to start a conversation with a stranger saying "you probably have Bose don't you" (in an attempt to demean)
2) I replied with the truth of what I really own
3) You're put off by my comment
---you guys are acting kinda silly over there nowadays
Listen, I don't care about Oppo and I don't care about Cambridge Audio. I don't even care about Blue Ray players because they're basically obsolete. I'm just saying objective is objective, and What-hi-fi is not being objective with this known battle between these two brands.
Being a German Resident, I bought Italian, Canadian, American & British HiFi Products and I do not see any logic in categorizing the products based on the country of origin especially for the end customer.
However this might be a different reason for a Magazine whose survival might depend on the monetary equation and possibly mostly local products / manufacturers & residents who buy the magazine offer the needed revenues (I might be the minor contributor who still buys the magazine not being located in UK)
I respect the magazine for their in-depth knowledge and unbiased testing though some times I get a feeling that some times the magazine's myopic view ignoring non-british products might hurt the hobby from a bigger picture perspective.
Coming back to Oppo review.. c'mon really? 3 stars?? especially in comparision to the Sony BDP-S790 which I have is 5 stars. There is something that went wrong with this review. I hope WHF comes clean after this long thread and reconfirm or correct their position.
My System |
HiFi: Oppo BDP-105 | Jolida JD-1501BRC | AG Strada | B&W 608 | Toshiba-46TL933G
HT: Sony BDP-S790 | Marantz SR6006 | Wharfedale DX-1 7.1 | Sony-55EX725
I don't know what the numbers are for overseas subscribers but the WHF team has stated (on more than one occasion) that they only review equipment that is readily available in the UK market, so that would exclude anything that would have to be ordered from outside the UK (ie doesn't have a UK distribution channel).
It's a UK magazine, if they started to review a load of gear that can't be bought in this country can you imagine the complaints that would create? Anyway, they don't ignore "non-British" products, they ignore products that aren't available here, there are plenty of non-British companies represented because they sell in the UK.
"comes clean"? That implies that WHF have deliberately given the Oppo a poor review for nefarious purposes, do you have anything to back that position up with? Btw, your Sony is less than £200, the Oppo is £500, WHF reviews are price-sensitive, so it doesn't imply that the Sony is actually better than the Oppo, just better value for money (in their opinion).
What I dont understand is why they make premium Blu Ray players with on board decoding. Does anybody ever use it? I can understand in the old days before we all had nice AV receivers and used HDMI but really its just a wast of money.
CD's are all be it for the short term the most widely available source of higher res digital music but once high quality downloads are available we will see the death of this source so does it really matter if it can play CD's.
The unit will stream which is a useful feature for some but again anybody with a quality set up, ie the customers for a unit like this, will either have a streamer or will be able to stream via their AV amp so again another useless feature.
I'm in the market for a new Blu Ray player and looked at these but could not quite get my head around paying for loads of features that I did not need. Overall I felt this was a £200 Blu Ray player with £300 of stuff that was surplus to requirement. I would like to see the brands launch a high quality Blu Ray transport with all the money spent on the bit that matters ...... playing Blu Rays
Cyrus Stream XP, Arcam AVR 400, Cyrus Pre DAC QX, 2 Cyrus X Power in mono, Apple TV, Kef R300, Kef R100, KEF R200c , Chord Carnival SilverScreen, Rel T2 with Chord Cobra Plus, Chord Signature interconects, Sky HD, Denon 2010 Blu-Ray.
In the Kitchen Cyrus Streamline, Monitor Audio R90HD on MA stands.
Well that's quite an interesting comment, as just the other day there was a thread (I can't remember if it was on this thread or another one) asking why top end receivers bothered with on board decoding as surely anyone that bought one would have a similarly high-end blu-ray player with "superior" decoding built in (I think it was someone asking why the sound from the analogue outputs wasn't specifically referenced in the reviews). Always nice to have a choice I guess...
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