Is a Blu-Ray player just a transport when using Bitstream?
Start with your BDP: turn upscaling on and allow your AVR to pass through HDMI data untouched.
Then switch the BDP's upscaling off and turn on your AVR's upscaling.
For clarity, turning upscaling on the Blu-ray player means setting the output to 1080p - clearly this will have no affect on Blu-rays (since they are already at that resolution), only DVDs. For the AVR to upscale, switch the Blu-ray player to output at 576p - again, only do this for DVDs, as otherwise you'll be downscaling Blu-rays to 576p in order for the AVR to upscale them to 1080p. This is clearly going to give you a pretty bad Blu-ray experience!
On standard HDTVs (i.e. 1080p or below resolution), upscaling is only really relevant for DVDs.
Yes, as above. Excuse my lack of clarity, I probably should have provided greater detail about the different settings...
Can AV Receivers be set up to upscale/not upscale different sources i.e. don't upscale 1080p/24 from the blu ray player but do upscale SD from the blu ray player or 1080i/SD from the SkyHD box?
If anyone has an answer for this query, I'd be interested in hearing it (note I've clarified the original query).
I've no direct experience of your AVR, but I'm certain it will pass through 1080/24p data, while upscaling lower resolution sources.
It's not a case of setting your TV upscale. This happens automatically whenever the TV processes lower than 1080p images. If you're upscaling externally via your BDP or AVR, the TV of course has no upscaling to do.
Have a look through the Denon's manual (or browse the GUI). You should be able to set the output resolution over HDMI. Set this to "1080p" rather than "pass through."
You can then compare the upscaling performance of your BDP, AVR, and TV by switching upscaling on and off. You only want one of these assigned to upscaling duties at any one time.
Start with your BDP: turn upscaling on and allow your AVR to pass through HDMI data untouched.
Then switch the BDP's upscaling off and turn on your AVR's upscaling.
Finally, turn off your BDP and AVR's upscaling to see how the TV performs this same task. As I say, the TV will do this automatically. There's no need to change any settings.
However, you should turn the TV's image processing off when performing all of these comparisons for a more objective test (so disengage DNR, motion processing, and other such "features").
You can then decide which option you're happiest with. I'll be surprised if you can notice much (if any) difference, but it's worth trying, as you never know...
strapped for cash - thanks but I already know how to do this - I'd already stated that my AV Receiver upscales the best out of all three devices.
For the AVR to upscale, switch the Blu-ray player to output at 576p - again, only do this for DVDs, as otherwise you'll be downscaling Blu-rays to 576p in order for the AVR to upscale them to 1080p.
Professorhat, I wasn't aware that blu ray players had options for setting the upscaling of different resolution media simultaneously. To my knowledge, most players have an 'Auto' setting that works out what resolution the source is and leaves it at that i.e. straight pass through.
For the AVR to upscale, switch the Blu-ray player to output at 576p - again, only do this for DVDs, as otherwise you'll be downscaling Blu-rays to 576p in order for the AVR to upscale them to 1080p.
Professorhat, I wasn't aware that blu ray players had options for setting the upscaling of different resolution media simultaneously. To my knowledge, most players have an 'Auto' setting that works out what resolution the source is and leaves it at that i.e. straight pass through.
That's another way of doing it.
Can AV Receivers be set up to upscale/not upscale different sources i.e. don't upscale 1080p/24 from the blu ray player but do upscale SD from the blu ray player or 1080i/SD from the SkyHD box?
If anyone has an answer for this query, I'd be interested in hearing it (note I've clarified the original query).
As ProfessorHat explained, an AV receiver cannot upscale a 1080p/24 blu ray disc, as it is already at that resolution when it leaves the blu ray player (& you've set the blu ray player to "auto", I.e., you're not downscaling 1080p/24 picture).
Setting the blu ray player to "auto" would also ensure that DVD pictures are upscaled by the AV receiver.
Again, set the Sky HD box to "auto", & your AV receiver will upscale the pictures.
For the AVR to upscale, switch the Blu-ray player to output at 576p - again, only do this for DVDs, as otherwise you'll be downscaling Blu-rays to 576p in order for the AVR to upscale them to 1080p.
Professorhat, I wasn't aware that blu ray players had options for setting the upscaling of different resolution media simultaneously. To my knowledge, most players have an 'Auto' setting that works out what resolution the source is and leaves it at that i.e. straight pass through.
They may well these days - back in the days when I was looking around for a player, this feature was quite rare. It's worth ensuring that's what Auto means though - I've seen a number of devices whereby Auto actually means it detects the resolution of your TV and automatically sets the output as that - so if you had a Full HD TV, then Auto would just mean all output would be at 1080p (Blu-rays and DVDs alike).
Can AV Receivers be set up to upscale/not upscale different sources i.e. don't upscale 1080p/24 from the blu ray player but do upscale SD from the blu ray player or 1080i/SD from the SkyHD box?
If anyone has an answer for this query, I'd be interested in hearing it (note I've clarified the original query).
As ProfessorHat explained, an AV receiver cannot upscale a 1080p/24 blu ray disc, as it is already at that resolution when it leaves the blu ray player (& you've set the blu ray player to "auto", I.e., you're not downscaling 1080p/24 picture).
Setting the blu ray player to "auto" would also ensure that DVD pictures are upscaled by the AV receiver.
Again, set the Sky HD box to "auto", & your AV receiver will upscale the pictures.
Bigboss - the reason I asked this is because I'd heard that you could upscale twice which can give you detrimental results i.e. an over processed image. I know technically the blu ray can't upscale 1080p/24 but is it possible for an AV receiver to try to upscale everything that it receives, including 1080p/24, leading to something being over processed? Thanks in advance for all your explanations and insights.
Can AV Receivers be set up to upscale/not upscale different sources i.e. don't upscale 1080p/24 from the blu ray player but do upscale SD from the blu ray player or 1080i/SD from the SkyHD box?
If anyone has an answer for this query, I'd be interested in hearing it (note I've clarified the original query).
As ProfessorHat explained, an AV receiver cannot upscale a 1080p/24 blu ray disc, as it is already at that resolution when it leaves the blu ray player (& you've set the blu ray player to "auto", I.e., you're not downscaling 1080p/24 picture).
Setting the blu ray player to "auto" would also ensure that DVD pictures are upscaled by the AV receiver.
Again, set the Sky HD box to "auto", & your AV receiver will upscale the pictures.
Bigboss - the reason I asked this is because I'd heard that you could upscale twice which can give you detrimental results i.e. an over processed image. I know technically the blu ray can't upscale 1080p/24 but is it possible for an AV receiver to try to upscale everything that it receives, including 1080p/24, leading to something being over processed? Thanks in advance for all your explanations and insights.
I've never heard of a picture being "upscaled" to the same resolution.
Bigboss - the reason I asked this is because I'd heard that you could upscale twice which can give you detrimental results i.e. an over processed image. I know technically the blu ray can't upscale 1080p/24 but is it possible for an AV receiver to try to upscale everything that it receives, including 1080p/24, leading to something being over processed? Thanks in advance for all your explanations and insights.
You can't upscale twice - upscaling is the process by which an image or a video of a lower resolution is made to fit a higher resolution screen - this is done by essentially making up data to fill the gaps. Some upscalers are more sophisticated than others, but if that image or video already fits the screen exactly, then nothing you can do will make it fit that screen better! I guess it could theoretically be possible for something to downscale an image, then upscale it back, but I don't know why you'd ever want to do that, and I don't think there would be a setting to do this (since it makes no sense!).
The only way I can think you could do this inadvertently would be to set your Blu-ray to manually output at 576p, then get your AV receiver or TV to upscale back to 1080p. Clearly then, the Blu-ray player would downscale Blu-rays from 1080p to 576p (throwing away information in the process), and your AV receiver or TV would upscale them back to 1080p. This is a very undesirable state and is why I mentioned ensuring you don't do this in my first post! But it takes two devices to do this - one to downscale and then another to upscale.
Processing the image is a different story - it's perfectly possible to set your Blu-ray player, your AV receiver and your TV to change the image (assuming they have that ability). Most do, and this includes things like noise reduction (NR), edge enhancement, sharpness etc. etc. Generally, I'd recommend starting with all these extra processing tools switched off - you can then tinker with them individually to see what affect they have and whether you prefer the picture with them on or off etc.
Bigboss, Professorhat, thanks.
The scaling down then up etc on various devices is known as 'double scaling' which is as you say a bad thing to do. I understand your point about the difference between processing and upscaling.
- Login to post comments
I've no direct experience of your AVR, but I'm certain it will pass through 1080/24p data, while upscaling lower resolution sources.
It's not a case of setting your TV upscale. This happens automatically whenever the TV processes lower than 1080p images. If you're upscaling externally via your BDP or AVR, the TV of course has no upscaling to do.
Have a look through the Denon's manual (or browse the GUI). You should be able to set the output resolution over HDMI. Set this to "1080p" rather than "pass through."
You can then compare the upscaling performance of your BDP, AVR, and TV by switching upscaling on and off. You only want one of these assigned to upscaling duties at any one time.
Start with your BDP: turn upscaling on and allow your AVR to pass through HDMI data untouched.
Then switch the BDP's upscaling off and turn on your AVR's upscaling.
Finally, turn off your BDP and AVR's upscaling to see how the TV performs this same task. As I say, the TV will do this automatically. There's no need to change any settings.
However, you should turn the TV's image processing off when performing all of these comparisons for a more objective test (so disengage DNR, motion processing, and other such "features").
You can then decide which option you're happiest with. I'll be surprised if you can notice much (if any) difference, but it's worth trying, as you never know...