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Thompsonuxb's picture
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24fps ....un-natural.

Well I'm new to the world of Blue Ray after years of refusing to buy into the hype. But have finally been turned.

Is it me or is BD un-natural looking - if anything I'm finding myself adjusting the picture down to DVD level. It kinda robs the sparkle off movies making them look almost like an in studio tv programme - like Emmerdale.

I'm missing the grit and grain the films don't feel cinematic.

The 24fps thing just looks plain weird to me, again robbing movies of their natural flow - the motion to me...well its inconsistant. it could be the content I have as my 1st blue rays are 'old' movies that have been converted and were not shot in HD. The Alien boxset is my first BR and I'm comparing it with my old Alien box set......( via the BDP) it is improved but .....but its like its plastic.

Its not like the transistion from Tape to CD is it?

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

Use a disc that has a THX optimiser on it so as you can set your system up correctly, as it’s probably not currently working at its best.

Blu-Rays like DVDs vary in quality.

24fps is the speed that all the usual films are shot in, so should be more natural than the 25 or 30fps used by DVD.

It’s also possible that you have got so used to DVD quality that the shock of the increased quality of Blu-ray is taking some time to get used to.

Hope this helps

Bill

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

Which TV and blu ray player have you got? What do you mean by adjusting the settings down to DVD level? Most films are shot at 24fps, so it should not look unnatural. Most TV programmes are recorded at 50 or 60fps. Are the films recorded at 24fps? Some TVs do not support 24fps, which needs to be considered as well.

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

Think you're on your own with this one...

 

Is it like the transition from tape to CD? Ignoring the suggestion that tape was a superior format, I suspect even you know that tape was an analogue format, so no, there is no analogy to be drawn whatsoever. 

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

The Alien films are renowned as good examples of blu ray PQ:

 

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Alien-Anthology-Blu-ray/5090/

 

So I'm saying either you've got a settings problem or a perception problem. 

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

bigboss wrote:
Which TV and blu ray player have you got? What do you mean by adjusting the settings down to DVD level? Most films are shot at 24fps, so it should not look unnatural. Most TV programmes are recorded at 50 or 60fps. Are the films recorded at 24fps? Some TVs do not support 24fps, which needs to be considered as well.

Sorry to be a pedant BB, but TV programmes are shot at 25 or 30 frames a second, also known as 50i or 59.94i (50 or 59.94 fields per second - I could explain the 59,94 rather than 60, but can't be bothered!).

ThompsonUXB, it definitely sounds as if you have some dreadful motion processing active which is making your 24 frame Blu-rays look like interlaced footage i.e what you describe as 'TV studio' looking - go through the menus on your TV or blu-ray and make sure any processing is turned off. And never fall for the totally incorrect assumption that because a film is old it is not HD. 35mm film has far better resolution than even 4K digitally sourced material and 35mm film is a fully recognised source for HD acquisition. And a properly scanned and restored 35mm neg can be stunning.

Rob

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

Thompsonuxb wrote:
Is it me or is BD un-natural looking - if anything I'm finding myself adjusting the picture down to DVD level. It kinda robs the sparkle off movies making them look almost like an in studio tv programme - like Emmerdale. I'm missing the grit and grain the films don't feel cinematic.

 

I actually agree with you to a certain extent, although I'd say it's probably because it's more natural - I've found myself watching a couple of movies whereby the picture quality is so good, that you can see how crap the sets, or the make up are, which for me, starts to spoil it.  This is a hell of a lot more evident on more modern digitally shot films I feel.

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

robjcooper wrote:

bigboss wrote:
Which TV and blu ray player have you got? What do you mean by adjusting the settings down to DVD level? Most films are shot at 24fps, so it should not look unnatural. Most TV programmes are recorded at 50 or 60fps. Are the films recorded at 24fps? Some TVs do not support 24fps, which needs to be considered as well.

Sorry to be a pedant BB, but TV programmes are shot at 25 or 30 frames a second, also known as 50i or 59.94i (50 or 59.94 fields per second - I could explain the 59,94 rather than 60, but can't be bothered!).

ThompsonUXB, it definitely sounds as if you have some dreadful motion processing active which is making your 24 frame Blu-rays look like interlaced footage i.e what you describe as 'TV studio' looking - go through the menus on your TV or blu-ray and make sure any processing is turned off. And never fall for the totally incorrect assumption that because a film is old it is not HD. 35mm film has far better resolution than even 4K digitally sourced material and 35mm film is a fully recognised source for HD acquisition. And a properly scanned and restored 35mm neg can be stunning.

Rob

 

Was just about to say that, Rob has hit the nail on the head. Sounds like some sort of motion processing rather than the 24fps setting to me.

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

Double Post...oops

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

TV Panasonic 47wt50b - BDP Panasonic BDT500 Yamaha RA-A1020 - processing off.

After much adjusting things have improved so currently switching between 24fps and normal, I have reduced 'clarity' setting which smooths out the motion a little but as the obvious downside (defeating the whole point of buying BluRay) - but when things go from slow to rapid movement or pans it still does not look right.

Will continue to tweak - my ref BD/DVD is Alien - I did not know the space suits (you know when they go to the alien spacecraft) had colours on them, never noticed before.   

And yes chebby that too, the sets on Alien do not appear has convincing as they once did especially the darker ones......... I'll not be getting John Carpenters  'Thing'  on BluRay thats for sure....

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

Thompsonuxb wrote:
Its not like the transistion from Tape to CD is it?
Yes, it is.

Quote:
Well I'm new to the world of Blue Ray after years of refusing to buy into the hype. But have finally been turned. Is it me or is BD un-natural looking - if anything I'm finding myself adjusting the picture down to DVD level. It kinda robs the sparkle off movies making them look almost like an in studio tv programme - like Emmerdale.
I think I know what you're talking about, but I find that effect of making film look like video a result if higher refresh rates on TVs (100Hz, 300Hz etc), and makes films look weird and unnatural. I hate it.

Quote:
I'm missing the grit and grain the films don't feel cinematic.
If a film is intended to be gritty and grainy, the Bluray will convey that.

Quote:
it could be the content I have as my 1st blue rays are 'old' movies that have been converted and were not shot in HD.
What do you mean by 'old'? There are movies out there that are well over 50 years old and look amazing. "HD" is a modern term we use in this digital age, but don't be fooled into thinking that older movies recorded onto film are inferior. The only ones that don't look good are those that have suffered irreparable damage to the master, or have been taken from a lesser quality print due to the original being lost or destroyed.

Quote:
The Alien boxset is my first BR and I'm comparing it with my old Alien box set......( via the BDP) it is improved but .....but its like its plastic.
Resurrection looks like standard def, and is a naff film anyway, so I don't really care about that, but the first two look stunning, particularly Aliens that now looks like it should have done, without all the noise that plagued the DVD, which was a sub standard transfer. Most of the sets probably were plastic...

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

Thompsonuxb wrote:
I'll not be getting John Carpenters  'Thing'  on BluRay thats for sure....

This is my all time favourite horror movie, and is a must buy for horror fans, particularly on Bluray. Amazing picture quality - there are things on the Bluray I never noticed on the DVD. It would be a sin not to buy it on Blu...

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

David@FrankHarvey wrote:
Quote:
it could be the content I have as my 1st blue rays are 'old' movies that have been converted and were not shot in HD.
What do you mean by 'old'? There are movies out there that are well over 50 years old and look amazing. "HD" is a modern term we use in this digital age, but don't be fooled into thinking that older movies recorded onto film are inferior. The only ones that don't look good are those that have suffered irreparable damage to the master, or have been taken from a lesser quality print due to the original being lost or destroyed.

Aye, Ben Hur looks incredible, wish I could watch it on a projector setup.

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

The_Lhc wrote:

David@FrankHarvey wrote:
Quote:
it could be the content I have as my 1st blue rays are 'old' movies that have been converted and were not shot in HD.
What do you mean by 'old'? There are movies out there that are well over 50 years old and look amazing. "HD" is a modern term we use in this digital age, but don't be fooled into thinking that older movies recorded onto film are inferior. The only ones that don't look good are those that have suffered irreparable damage to the master, or have been taken from a lesser quality print due to the original being lost or destroyed.

Aye, Ben Hur looks incredible, wish I could watch it on a projector setup.

 

The Bond films are another example of how good an old film can look/sound on Blu-ray if you make the effort.

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

Yes, Dr. No is a great example. I seem to recall they had to redo the backgrounds as the picture quality was so good the original effects looked dreadful. I really must look out for another deal on the full boxset...

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RE: 24fps ....un-natural.

The_Lhc wrote:

Yes, Dr. No is a great example. I seem to recall they had to redo the backgrounds as the picture quality was so good the original effects looked dreadful. I really must look out for another deal on the full boxset...

£80 on Zavvi for the whole lot up to & including Quantum.

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