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rendu's picture
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RE: Pioneer LX82 and Music

Thanks very much for the detail explanation.  I will definetly try to read again the white paper and try to apply some of the recommendations.  I do have one question which is not very clear to me.  When they talk about the bad work done by the YPAO equalizer, do they refer to all the settings done by the YPAO (for example) or, do they only refer to the equalization (7 band in case of YPAO)?  For example in the YPAO there are many settings such as: speaker distance, delay levels, size, etc.  Are those settings at least reliable or do they also need to be adjusted manually?  I would not know how to set up some things like delay, room size, etc. if I had to do it manually.

Regarding the eq. under and over 200Hz, I will give it a try but only if I can find a way to copy the current manual eq. which I have defined.  I must say again was surprise to read this since most amps that I have used sounded a bit more clear and alive with a bit of treble and bit of bass (equalizatin in form of "V").  Also, every amp output has differently equalization altogether so, how can they make a general statement that the equalization of all the amps is correct for ranges 200 Hz to 16khz.  There are amps which sound bright out of the box and amps which sound dull so, how can you apply the same comment to both of them?  I am not expert in this area so, apologies if I am making stupid questions.

ellisdj's picture
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RE: Pioneer LX82 and Music

The statement is not aimed at any company in particular - its a general statement that parametric equalisation likes whats used in YPAO doesnt work properly i.e. it doesnt categorically improve the sound for playback

By that they mean its altering the sound to compensate for room problems which is harmful above 250htz.

Distances, levels are all fine - they are just preamp levels and delays - processing but much less harmful if you ask me.

 

Meridian Room Correction uses a knotch filter eq system - not parametric which is supposedly better - I have no experience of that so cannot comment.

If you want to try their reco - set your amp up as normal - depending how you have it setup - I would have speakers small - 80htz crossover and the sub does the rest.  Depending on how well you sub is setup will make the difference to the bass you get.

Then go in and level out - i.e. put on 0 all the eq bands that are 250htz and above for the L & R.

I would do this in another memory slot - start from scratch rather than go over your exisitng then you can go back and fourth in testing to hear the difference,

 

Let me know if you do it, how you get on and if you need anymore help?

Meridian 861 V4 LPSU, HD621, Bryston 9BSST - GIK Acoustics

Monitor Audio PL100, PLC 150 (Soon), GXFX, SVS SB13 ULTRA

Custom Audio PC LPSU + Batts, JPLAY, JCAT and PPA Studio

65VT65, UD7007, Graham Slee Cables, Isotek, XLO

rendu's picture
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RE: Pioneer LX82 and Music

Thanks, I will give it a try and share any experiencies if I anything is worth sharing.  Regards.

ellisdj's picture
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RE: Pioneer LX82 and Music

Further reporting on from before.

 

I have all 6 acoustic panels installed now - 2 on each side wall and 1 front and 1 back.

Every panel I installed I could hear the bass tightening each time.  I was going to run some room measurements but didnt in the end too busy testing, I can hear the effect and can guess what the measurement results might look like.

 

Back to the sound quality - something to pass on.

I am now running my front 3 speakers with no eq - full band phase off and standing wave off.

For music I like the levels MCCAC has set - however in films the bass is too much as its not fully controlled in the real deep stuff so a reduction of 2db gets it in line - I am also thinking of the neighbours

What is something worth noting - I have no real acoustic treatment for my rears - my cousin suggested using mccac in front align mode - so that the rears are eq's to sound like the fronts - that has worked very well, much better than I had hoped.

This has really helped with the rear channel transparency and overall sound blending and imaging front to back

Meridian 861 V4 LPSU, HD621, Bryston 9BSST - GIK Acoustics

Monitor Audio PL100, PLC 150 (Soon), GXFX, SVS SB13 ULTRA

Custom Audio PC LPSU + Batts, JPLAY, JCAT and PPA Studio

65VT65, UD7007, Graham Slee Cables, Isotek, XLO

Anonymous
Anonymous's picture
RE: Pioneer LX82 and Music

G'day you all

Smile

 

I also own an LX-82, but my question is actually even more beginner: where do I learn about Audio & Speakers? Would anybody know of any tutorial that enables me to grasp what seems all to easy for you all but is way beyond my leak? I mean, without me googling and clicking for months? Because I have been doing that for the last four hours, only to become completely depressed. Even the 'explanations' I found that are aimed at 'beginners' assume so much implicit knowledge, that all you do is run around / click around in circles ('what does this word mean the author uses but doesn't explain so assumes knowledge for the beginning reader).

I am a complete noob as it comes to audio, and basically, my problem is this: two years ago I bought one of the last Kuro's (KRP-500A). I decided to buy an LX-82 (and an LX-52) to go with it, since the retailer offered a great deal. The Kuro has been used intensively (nice TV

Kiss

), and so has the LX-52. The LX-82, however, has not been used whatsoever, it has just been standing there for two years, right under the TV, looking all shiny and making me wonder every day 'and what might that machine be capable of'? (This last sentence was meant to make you all laugh :-)).

The problem being is: the Pioneer manual appears to be a sort of 'point and click' (if you want this setting, then press this setting). But the bigger picture isn't there. All kinds of terms I have no clue about what they mean, so I have no clue what I am 'tweaking' or what I should be tweaking. I mean it like this: there is no reference model in my head, the foundation of audio. To give an example: I see many people all easily discussing the best setting for a cross-over, but I have no clue what a cross-over is in the first place, so nice that the Pioneer manual says 'if you want to change the cross over', then go this menu, but I am lacking the foundation of it all: the 'audio 101'. Another example: standing waves, ok, my stupid brain (I studied economics, so there you go; point proved Lol says 'well, I have no clue what is, its probably the brother of the lying wave (again, meant to make a laugh for you :-)).

Now, like said, it will take me months to google every word, sift through the sites that don't properly explain it, and then, finally, I will probably end with a list of words with explanations. And then I have to connect all that to something coherent (and pray that I don't make errors due to misunderstandings), to arrive at 'the conceptual, high-level, frame work of audio'. And once I've done that, I can dive into the Pioneer manual, try to understand their settings and how to relate that to the conceptual audio framework. And to do this a little bit more efficienty (the alternative is throwing the LX-82 in the garbage can because I can't spend months on this, there are mouths to feed in this family and I am the choosen one to do that :-)), I am looking for such a 'audio for complete dummies: what the words mean, and how it all relates to eachother'.

To give one more example: I studied economics. For sure I  can't tell non-economists about how to monitor the beta of a stock market share if I don't lay the foundation first: what stocks are, how the stock market works, how stocks are valued, how to tend to evolve. And including statistics foundations in this matter too. Only then, after I have explained all that, if I have been a good tutorial, the student is ready to understand what 'beta' means in the stock market, and how to interpret and work with it.

I was hoping someone here would perhaps be so (too!) kind to point me in the right direction. I was thinking, I can't be the first one to ask for a document like this, so it has to exist somewhere. But I can't seem to find it.

I'd be in your debt for helping me out, and I really, really, mean that Biggrin

Thank you in advance,

Bye,

Dutch

 

 

 

 

 

 

john1000000boy's picture
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Joined: 17/09/2007 - 21:00
Posts: 711
RE: Pioneer LX82 and Music

Dutch wrote:

 

G'day you all

Smile

 

 

I also own an LX-82, but my question is actually even more beginner: where do I learn about Audio & Speakers? Would anybody know of any tutorial that enables me to grasp what seems all to easy for you all but is way beyond my leak? I mean, without me googling and clicking for months? Because I have been doing that for the last four hours, only to become completely depressed. Even the 'explanations' I found that are aimed at 'beginners' assume so much implicit knowledge, that all you do is run around / click around in circles ('what does this word mean the author uses but doesn't explain so assumes knowledge for the beginning reader).

I am a complete noob as it comes to audio, and basically, my problem is this: two years ago I bought one of the last Kuro's (KRP-500A). I decided to buy an LX-82 (and an LX-52) to go with it, since the retailer offered a great deal. The Kuro has been used intensively (nice TV

Kiss

), and so has the LX-52. The LX-82, however, has not been used whatsoever, it has just been standing there for two years, right under the TV, looking all shiny and making me wonder every day 'and what might that machine be capable of'? (This last sentence was meant to make you all laugh :-)).

The problem being is: the Pioneer manual appears to be a sort of 'point and click' (if you want this setting, then press this setting). But the bigger picture isn't there. All kinds of terms I have no clue about what they mean, so I have no clue what I am 'tweaking' or what I should be tweaking. I mean it like this: there is no reference model in my head, the foundation of audio. To give an example: I see many people all easily discussing the best setting for a cross-over, but I have no clue what a cross-over is in the first place, so nice that the Pioneer manual says 'if you want to change the cross over', then go this menu, but I am lacking the foundation of it all: the 'audio 101'. Another example: standing waves, ok, my stupid brain (I studied economics, so there you go; point proved Lol says 'well, I have no clue what is, its probably the brother of the lying wave (again, meant to make a laugh for you :-)).

Now, like said, it will take me months to google every word, sift through the sites that don't properly explain it, and then, finally, I will probably end with a list of words with explanations. And then I have to connect all that to something coherent (and pray that I don't make errors due to misunderstandings), to arrive at 'the conceptual, high-level, frame work of audio'. And once I've done that, I can dive into the Pioneer manual, try to understand their settings and how to relate that to the conceptual audio framework. And to do this a little bit more efficienty (the alternative is throwing the LX-82 in the garbage can because I can't spend months on this, there are mouths to feed in this family and I am the choosen one to do that :-)), I am looking for such a 'audio for complete dummies: what the words mean, and how it all relates to eachother'.

To give one more example: I studied economics. For sure I  can't tell non-economists about how to monitor the beta of a stock market share if I don't lay the foundation first: what stocks are, how the stock market works, how stocks are valued, how to tend to evolve. And including statistics foundations in this matter too. Only then, after I have explained all that, if I have been a good tutorial, the student is ready to understand what 'beta' means in the stock market, and how to interpret and work with it.

I was hoping someone here would perhaps be so (too!) kind to point me in the right direction. I was thinking, I can't be the first one to ask for a document like this, so it has to exist somewhere. But I can't seem to find it.

I'd be in your debt for helping me out, and I really, really, mean that Biggrin

Thank you in advance,

Bye,

Dutch

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Dutch and welcome, what speakers are you running??  Speaker size affects the x over frequency. Have a look at this thread, in particular v1c's should give a good starting point. 

 

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/pioneer-help-needed

 

All the best and let me know how it goes!

 

John

 

 

Panasonic tx p65st 50b. Pioneer Sc- lx82, bdp lx52. Monitor audio rx6 av12. Bowers & Wilkins P7. Fiio Mont Blanc. Everything Apple. Pioneer pep 4280xd. Lots of other stuff.....

Anonymous
Anonymous's picture
RE: Pioneer LX82 and Music

Would it be possible to create a better sound using ceiling speakers?  Our living area is upstairs and there is plenty of loft space above.

ellisdj's picture
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Joined: 11/12/2008 - 17:55
Posts: 1420
RE: Pioneer LX82 and Music

A quick update - re my experiences with my LX83.

 

I have bought a seperate power amp and have been using the Pioneer as a Processor.

The results have really impressed me - the sound is still very much tailored by the Pioneer which I am used to and really like and the processing is excellent however with the extra control, weight, scale and timing of a very good power amp the sound is taken up a level definately.

 

I searched a lot to find info on someone using a LX83 as a processor and couldnt find anything - therefore this is something to bear in mind if you are thinking of upgrading.

The LX83 talents stretch even further - great bit of AV Kit

Meridian 861 V4 LPSU, HD621, Bryston 9BSST - GIK Acoustics

Monitor Audio PL100, PLC 150 (Soon), GXFX, SVS SB13 ULTRA

Custom Audio PC LPSU + Batts, JPLAY, JCAT and PPA Studio

65VT65, UD7007, Graham Slee Cables, Isotek, XLO

michael hoy's picture
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Last seen: 16 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 06/10/2008 - 18:56
Posts: 1622
RE: Pioneer LX82 and Music

ellisdj wrote:

A quick update - re my experiences with my LX83.

 

I have bought a seperate power amp and have been using the Pioneer as a Processor.

The results have really impressed me - the sound is still very much tailored by the Pioneer which I am used to and really like and the processing is excellent however with the extra control, weight, scale and timing of a very good power amp the sound is taken up a level definately.

 

I searched a lot to find info on someone using a LX83 as a processor and couldnt find anything - therefore this is something to bear in mind if you are thinking of upgrading.

The LX83 talents stretch even further - great bit of AV Kit

 

What did you buy?

ellisdj's picture
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Last seen: 6 hours 31 min ago
Joined: 11/12/2008 - 17:55
Posts: 1420
RE: Pioneer LX82 and Music

Meridian G55 in silver - I have a Meridian MC200 and MS600 source so I am going for synergy rather than hot rod.

Meridian 861 V4 LPSU, HD621, Bryston 9BSST - GIK Acoustics

Monitor Audio PL100, PLC 150 (Soon), GXFX, SVS SB13 ULTRA

Custom Audio PC LPSU + Batts, JPLAY, JCAT and PPA Studio

65VT65, UD7007, Graham Slee Cables, Isotek, XLO

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