Have your say & ask the experts!

FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

72 replies [Last post]
bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11784
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

CaptHowdy wrote:

bigboss wrote:
Thanks for bringing some sense here!  good job

So at the price point of the 818, none of the receivers are capable of driving 4 ohm speakers adequately & not just the Onkyo?

So someone else says it and it is fine.  Right. ohhh sure

No, read properly. This is from someone who has actually heard the 818. Also, your posts made it appear that Onkyo specifically has a problem driving 4 ohm speakers. David's post says otherwise. The cheapest receiver that can drive them properly is not even in the budget range of the 818.

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 10858
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

bigboss wrote:
So at the price point of the 818, none of the receivers are capable of driving 4 ohm speakers adequately & not just the Onkyo?

Objectively, you can rig up the receiver in question with some THX AV speakers and turn it up to Reference level for three hours - you'll soon find out if the ultimate abilities of the receiver are good enough and up to the job. Many manufacturers will give 4ohm power ratings for receivers and amplifiers, whether or not they can actually drive them properly or not. I've seen one box mini systems as well as big standard hi-fi amplifiers with 4ohm power ratings in their specs - in reality, they'd struggle very early on. 

At average volumes, and with a high-ish efficiency speaker, a budget amp will probably sound fine on the face of it, but once the going gets tough, it'll soon show signs of strain or lack of control. I remember the good old B&W DM601's were perfect for demonstrating this - if they sounded bassy, soft, dull, and lacking definition, the amp wasn't up to the job - put on a more stable amplifier that could deal with 4ohm speakers, and suddenly you had a well defined, punchy sounding speaker that was head and shoulders above anything else.

I think part of the problem is that more people have heard (or own) speakers that aren't being driven properly than people who have heard (or own) speakers being driven properly.

To answer your question, in my opinion, there are no £1k AV receivers that can properly drive good quality, 4ohm loudspeakers.

__________________

David @Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, Coventry

Official Record Store Day participants!

bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11784
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

If you go through your posts in this thread, you'll understand why I challenged your beliefs. Mocking people & their reviews with your own assumptions is arrogant. Why can't people look for musical abilities in an AV receiver? They don't want the very best in music (that a dedicated stereo amplifier can achieve), but want good music with the convenience of 1 package. 

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11784
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:

To answer your question, in my opinion, there are no £1k AV receivers that can properly drive good quality, 4ohm loudspeakers.

So what are the advantages of 4 ohm speakers? Why can't manufacturers stick to 8 ohms?

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

CaptHowdy's picture
Offline
Joined: 6 Jun 2012
Posts: 65
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

bigboss wrote:
No, read properly. This is from someone who has actually heard the 818. Also, your posts made it appear that Onkyo specifically has a problem driving 4 ohm speakers. David's post says otherwise. The cheapest receiver that can drive them properly is not even in the budget range of the 818.

I can read just fine thanks.  You are making such a pathetic point here is it ridiculous.  No I never compared it to any other AVR because I did not feel there was a need to get into an X vs Y comparison.  Trying to say I was wrong because of things that I never felt the need to point out is also just as pathetic.

You are so wrapped up in yourself that you failed to realise that David's comments were based on previous experinece and not by actually using the 150's on the 818.  Which does not put his experience level any higher than my own.

__________________

bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11784
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

CaptHowdy wrote:

bigboss wrote:
No, read properly. This is from someone who has actually heard the 818. Also, your posts made it appear that Onkyo specifically has a problem driving 4 ohm speakers. David's post says otherwise. The cheapest receiver that can drive them properly is not even in the budget range of the 818.

I can read just fine thanks.  You are making such a pathetic point here is it ridiculous.  No I never compared it to any other AVR because I did not feel there was a need to get into an X vs Y comparison.  Trying to say I was wrong because of things that I never felt the need to point out is also just as pathetic.

You are so wrapped up in yourself that you failed to realise that David's comments were based on previous experinece and not by actually using the 150's on the 818.  Which does not put his experience level any higher than my own.

Arrogant as ever.  ohhh sure

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

CaptHowdy's picture
Offline
Joined: 6 Jun 2012
Posts: 65
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

bigboss wrote:

If you go through your posts in this thread, you'll understand why I challenged your beliefs. Mocking people & their reviews with your own assumptions is arrogant. Why can't people look for musical abilities in an AV receiver? They don't want the very best in music (that a dedicated stereo amplifier can achieve), but want good music with the convenience of 1 package. 

There is a big difference between experience and assumptions.  I am pretty sure I have more experience of Onkyo AVR's than you do.  Especially as I actually own one.  You have little no experience yourself so there is no need to get up on your high horse about it.

Again I am very happy with the musical abilities of the Onkyo.  Not sure why I am having to repeat that.  Other than you trying to make a big thing out of nothing.

__________________

CaptHowdy's picture
Offline
Joined: 6 Jun 2012
Posts: 65
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

bigboss wrote:
Arrogant as ever.  ohhh sure

Lame as always!!!! rolling on the floor laughing

__________________

CaptHowdy's picture
Offline
Joined: 6 Jun 2012
Posts: 65
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

bigboss wrote:
So what are the advantages of 4 ohm speakers? Why can't manufacturers stick to 8 ohms?

A question proving your serious lack of knowledge.  And you are questioning me about my knowledge?  Priceless. hello or goodbye

__________________

BenLaw's picture
Offline
Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5884
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

CaptHowdy wrote:

bigboss wrote:
Nope, can't find any post related to the 818. No need to argue without any proof. Please post some links.

The only link I found is this, in which Onkyo says there's no problem driving 4 ohm speakers, as long as all the speakers are 4 ohms:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1412714/onkyo-tx-nr818-official-owners-thread-discussion/540

There is a big difference between a speaker making some noise and a speaker being driven properly.  But if you feel you have found proof that everyone is fine then that is awesome.  No one with difficult to drive 4 ohm speakers should worry and anyone and everyone can buy an 818 safe in the knowledge that you have given it your seal of approval.  I imagine that you can also confirm that the 818 is the perfect match for expensive speaker/sub packages like the one WHF decided to test it with.  I am not sure of the exact amount of the package but it is clearly way beyond the scope of what will be paired with it in the real world.  But hey.. if the 818 is so powerful and performed so well then I guess there is no point in anyone spending over £1k on an AVR with any speaker package right?  So ignore my posts as I am obviously a complete idiot.

Or maybe I do have a legitimate point and you are just just trying to appear to be clever because you have so many posts and feel like everyone should bow down before you and respect everything you say.  I can guarantee you that I could make the 818 shut down like the 3008/3009/5008/5009 does with a particular speaker package and not at a particulary over the top volume level.  But as you own a Yamaha 1900 and Monitor Audio Radius speakers (which are very easy to drive) you would not really have experienced it for yourself.

I guess people can make their own minds up on who is right and who is wrong.

 

I don't care who's right and who's wrong, but I can make my mind up about which one of you's being a complete EDITED. 

__________________

HiFi   /   A/V   /   Bedroom

bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11784
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

CaptHowdy wrote:

Again I am very happy with the musical abilities of the Onkyo.

CaptHowdy wrote:

But there are too many people out there claiming that Onkyo AVR's and Music do not mix.  So trying to convince people that the 818 can reproduce Music to a high standard will be falling on deaf ears.  But good luck with it.

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11784
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

CaptHowdy wrote:

bigboss wrote:
So what are the advantages of 4 ohm speakers? Why can't manufacturers stick to 8 ohms?

A question proving your serious lack of knowledge.  And you are questioning me about my knowledge?  Priceless. hello or goodbye

You haven't heard the 818 so your experience doesn't count. I can't drive a Polo & comment on Passat's performance, simply because they're both made by one manufacturer.

I haven't asked you the question, so stay out of it if you don't have anything useful to add. I know 4 ohm speakers can draw more power out of the amplifier. What's in theory & in reality are two different things. So I'm asking David's experience.

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

CaptHowdy's picture
Offline
Joined: 6 Jun 2012
Posts: 65
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

BenLaw wrote:
I don't care who's right and who's wrong, but I can make my mind up about which one of you's being a complete EDITED.

Takes one to know one, as they say.

__________________

CaptHowdy's picture
Offline
Joined: 6 Jun 2012
Posts: 65
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

bigboss wrote:

CaptHowdy wrote:

Again I am very happy with the musical abilities of the Onkyo.

CaptHowdy wrote:

But there are too many people out there claiming that Onkyo AVR's and Music do not mix.  So trying to convince people that the 818 can reproduce Music to a high standard will be falling on deaf ears.  But good luck with it.

But did I actually say that I was one of the people that thinks Onkyo AVR's and Music do not mix?  No.

I was pointing out that it is an uphill battle trying to get the point across as so many people think Onkyo's are rubbish for music.

So again... you have argued with me for nothing.

__________________

Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 10858
RE: FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

bigboss wrote:
FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:

To answer your question, in my opinion, there are no £1k AV receivers that can properly drive good quality, 4ohm loudspeakers.

So what are the advantages of 4 ohm speakers? Why can't manufacturers stick to 8 ohms?

The specifications of a loudspeaker are usually a bit of a juggling act, so you'll never find the perfect loudspeaker based on numbers. Impedance generally drops with frequency and even speakers that are rated 8ohms tend to drop down to 4ohms (sometimes lower). There's no hard and fast rules, but 4ohm speakers are generally better quality ones (KEF Reference and R/B&W 800 and CM etc), but are more demanding of the amplifier. Most budget/mid priced speakers tend to be rated at 6-8ohms (MA Bronze or KEF Q).

A manufacturer can control many of the specs using the crossover, but the more you manipulate the natural specs of the speaker, the more complex the crossover becomes which in turn degrades the resulting signal. Ideally, you don't want any components on the crossover that you don't really need. 

__________________

David @Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, Coventry

Official Record Store Day participants!