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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

acalex wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

Native_bon wrote:

Sorry off Topic...

 Hey CnoEvil, woild you happen to know were i could get this sonus faber Venere center to match my speakers.. Or if possible to audtion the center.. am currently using B&W's HTM61.. Would my  Cremona's over power the Venere center..?

Cheers

I can't be much help I'm afraid........maybe give SF a ring and see where your nearest dealer is.

I wouldn't think your Cremonas would over-power the Venere centre....I would worry more about the tonal match (which may be OK).

I am really not experienced so pardon me if I am saying silly things...but it is really that important? I mean, the voice when you have a center is supposed to get out of the center only, correct? How a tonal match will influence so much your experience? I mean if you get voice over the center and all the rest from the front. why it's so important having the tone of special effects similar to the voice? How much difference can be?

Again...sorry if I am swearing!  :oops:

A tonal match is usually recommended for fronts and centre, so that each speaker knows its exact job. It's not only voice that will come out of the centre speaker, but some music as well. Audio separation is better if matched tonally. Usually same brand speakers is recommended.

Having said that, if funds are tight, just get a centre speaker to suit your budget & demo it to see if you're happy with it. There's no hard & fast rule in home cinema (except getting a subwoofer  Wink ).

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

bigboss wrote:

acalex wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

Native_bon wrote:

Sorry off Topic...

 Hey CnoEvil, woild you happen to know were i could get this sonus faber Venere center to match my speakers.. Or if possible to audtion the center.. am currently using B&W's HTM61.. Would my  Cremona's over power the Venere center..?

Cheers

I can't be much help I'm afraid........maybe give SF a ring and see where your nearest dealer is.

I wouldn't think your Cremonas would over-power the Venere centre....I would worry more about the tonal match (which may be OK).

I am really not experienced so pardon me if I am saying silly things...but it is really that important? I mean, the voice when you have a center is supposed to get out of the center only, correct? How a tonal match will influence so much your experience? I mean if you get voice over the center and all the rest from the front. why it's so important having the tone of special effects similar to the voice? How much difference can be?

Again...sorry if I am swearing!  :oops:

A tonal match is usually recommended for fronts and centre, so that each speaker knows its exact job. It's not only voice that will come out of the centre speaker, but some music as well. Audio separation is better if matched tonally. Usually same brand speakers is recommended.

Having said that, if funds are tight, just get a centre speaker to suit your budget & demo it to see if you're happy with it. There's no hard & fast rule in home cinema (except getting a subwoofer  Wink ).

It sounds like a fair advice, thanks. I think I will be borrowing the B&W center and subwoofer from Rob to see how things change and if I can live with the fact the center and the front won't be tonally balanced. 

I actually like a lot the Marantz which would tick also a lot of other boxes

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

One thing I do not understand yet...if I have to connect the pre-out of the AVreceiver to the amplifier driving my front, where do I connect the subwoofer then? To the hi-fi amplifier? Or I just take one exit of the 7 channels out from the Marantz?

Thx again

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RE: A/V Receiver and Bluray

Hi Acalex

 

 

I quite understand your issue of dialogue vs. effects using a stereo system, something I did for many years.  My solution was to keep AV and stereo playback separate and I’m very happy with the results.

(I use MA Radius One below the TV plus a MA Radius R370HD sub plus R90HD rears, but have kept my stereo speakers.  Currently using them through zone 2 of the AV receiver with the eventual plan to drive them with a Naim Unitilite or similar).

 

To keep your box count down and (just) within budget, could this be an option for you?...

 

3 x wall-mounted Neat iota’s (they’re VERY small and would not dominate any room visually), an AV receiver (there are some excellent deals on Yamaha A1010’s / A2010’s at the moment), separate blu-ray player (I know this wasn’t what your original post asked for, but most blurays are extremely slim) and a sub-woofer.

 

I reckon if you purchased from one place you’d just about get this within the £2K (usually you’d get a decent package deal discount).  List prices would be £950 ish for the Neat iota’s, allow £600 for AV receiver, £200 for bluray £350 for Sub.  Again with package discount, you may be able to look at a more expensive sub / bluray.  Your dealer would probably be dictated by where you can find the Neat iota's.

 

Also from my own experience, even with the technical wizardry of an AV receiver, you’ll STILL find yourself turning volume up and down at times to cope with the way some blurays are mastered.  Listening to some mixes in pure direct (without any dialogue enhancement) is a joke.  But with some tweaking with the settings I’ve eventually found a decent balance, and keeping it all separate from the stereo setup, IMO is a simpler approach.  It’s not for everyone, but it could be something to consider.

 

All the best with your dilemma!

 

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

Option1:Denon Cara S-5BD

Blu Ray Player with AV Receiver - Drives Center Speaker and sub woofer, pre-out go into the HiFi Integrated amp for Front Left and Right. Volume controlled by Cara

Option 2: Oppo BDP -105

Blu Ray player with Pre-amp - Drives Center and Sub woofer (You need atleast one channel power amp for Center) and the volume is controlled by Oppo. Also Oppo DAC is pretty good and can act a a proper CD player. If there is an active version of your center speaker available then no need for a seperate power amp to drive the center.

Option 3: Seperate Blu Ray Player & AV Receiver

Any of your choice & Budget. AVR drives the center and Sub and volume is controlled by AVR

However in all the cases, ideally Center Speaker should have similar tonal balance as the FL, FR (Same brand, same series). The Power amp or AVR's Power section makes not much of a difference (There might be slight noticeable effect but not worth focussing on this area, IMO)

Option 4:

Seperate HT and HiFi. Easy to handle but might miss out the SQ levels of the HiFi

Cheers!

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

acalex wrote:

One thing I do not understand yet...if I have to connect the pre-out of the AVreceiver to the amplifier driving my front, where do I connect the subwoofer then? To the hi-fi amplifier? Or I just take one exit of the 7 channels out from the Marantz?

Thx again

The Marantz will have a subwoofer out.

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

WishTree wrote:

Option1:Denon Cara S-5BD

Blu Ray Player with AV Receiver - Drives Center Speaker and sub woofer, pre-out go into the HiFi Integrated amp for Front Left and Right. Volume controlled by Cara

I don't think the Cara has pre-outs. Check the discussion about it earlier in the thread.

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

bigboss wrote:

acalex wrote:

One thing I do not understand yet...if I have to connect the pre-out of the AVreceiver to the amplifier driving my front, where do I connect the subwoofer then? To the hi-fi amplifier? Or I just take one exit of the 7 channels out from the Marantz?

Thx again

The Marantz will have a subwoofer out.

True, thanks a lot! 

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

WishTree wrote:

Option1:Denon Cara S-5BD

Blu Ray Player with AV Receiver - Drives Center Speaker and sub woofer, pre-out go into the HiFi Integrated amp for Front Left and Right. Volume controlled by Cara

Option 2: Oppo BDP -105

Blu Ray player with Pre-amp - Drives Center and Sub woofer (You need atleast one channel power amp for Center) and the volume is controlled by Oppo. Also Oppo DAC is pretty good and can act a a proper CD player. If there is an active version of your center speaker available then no need for a seperate power amp to drive the center.

Option 3: Seperate Blu Ray Player & AV Receiver

Any of your choice & Budget. AVR drives the center and Sub and volume is controlled by AVR

However in all the cases, ideally Center Speaker should have similar tonal balance as the FL, FR (Same brand, same series). The Power amp or AVR's Power section makes not much of a difference (There might be slight noticeable effect but not worth focussing on this area, IMO)

Option 4:

Seperate HT and HiFi. Easy to handle but might miss out the SQ levels of the HiFi

Cheers!

 

As BB says, option one won't work as the cara only has pre outs for surround backs, not for fronts. 

 

Option two with an active centre is a good idea, but there is no way to get a matching centre. And it will be difficult to come in in budget. 

 

Option three is tricky due to budget and a consequent non-matching centre. I guess Alex needs to demo and see if this bothers him. To expand on earlier answers, it isn't just voices that come from the centre. Something like 70% of all the audio comes through the centre. A non- matching centre will be particularly unsettling when there are effects panning across from one side to another, as it'll sound odd when it goes through the centre. 

 

Option four to me is the only realistic option (without changing the stereo setup also) but Alex says space requirements make this unrealistic. Alex could consider style speakers like the radius or apex or q acoustics. 

 

I think BB's suggestion of experimenting with a sub (and also a non-matching centre) is the best idea at this stage. 

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

BenLaw wrote:

WishTree wrote:

Option1:Denon Cara S-5BD

Blu Ray Player with AV Receiver - Drives Center Speaker and sub woofer, pre-out go into the HiFi Integrated amp for Front Left and Right. Volume controlled by Cara

Option 2: Oppo BDP -105

Blu Ray player with Pre-amp - Drives Center and Sub woofer (You need atleast one channel power amp for Center) and the volume is controlled by Oppo. Also Oppo DAC is pretty good and can act a a proper CD player. If there is an active version of your center speaker available then no need for a seperate power amp to drive the center.

Option 3: Seperate Blu Ray Player & AV Receiver

Any of your choice & Budget. AVR drives the center and Sub and volume is controlled by AVR

However in all the cases, ideally Center Speaker should have similar tonal balance as the FL, FR (Same brand, same series). The Power amp or AVR's Power section makes not much of a difference (There might be slight noticeable effect but not worth focussing on this area, IMO)

Option 4:

Seperate HT and HiFi. Easy to handle but might miss out the SQ levels of the HiFi

Cheers!

 

As BB says, option one won't work as the cara only has pre outs for surround backs, not for fronts. 

 

Option two with an active centre is a good idea, but there is no way to get a matching centre. And it will be difficult to come in in budget. 

 

Option three is tricky due to budget and a consequent non-matching centre. I guess Alex needs to demo and see if this bothers him. To expand on earlier answers, it isn't just voices that come from the centre. Something like 70% of all the audio comes through the centre. A non- matching centre will be particularly unsettling when there are effects panning across from one side to another, as it'll sound odd when it goes through the centre. 

 

Option four to me is the only realistic option (without changing the stereo setup also) but Alex says space requirements make this unrealistic. Alex could consider style speakers like the radius or apex or q acoustics. 

 

I think BB's suggestion of experimenting with a sub (and also a non-matching centre) is the best idea at this stage. 

Yes, I think you gave me all very good advices and I see it is not that easy as I though. I also think the option of keeping HT and music separate is the best but impossible at this stage. I might buy a new appartment later this year so may be I just need to delay.

What I will do for now is indeed testing two things

1. Having a subwoofer

2. Using a center which is not matcking to check if it bothers me or not.

I understand now the problem with effects panning across from lef to right and going through the center, thanks for explaining that.

EDIT: To try 1 and 2 I still need to borrow an AVR also..as cannot be tried otherwise, correct?

EDIT2: If I get just a BR palyer (like the Marantz UD5007) I could go from the audio output on the player to one input of my hi-fi amplifier to get the audio in stereo mode from my existing speakers?

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

acalex wrote:

EDIT: To try 1 and 2 I still need to borrow an AVR also..as cannot be tried otherwise, correct?

Yes, that is correct.

Quote:

EDIT2: If I get just a BR palyer (like the Marantz UD5007) I could go from the audio output on the player to one input of my hi-fi amplifier to get the audio in stereo mode from my existing speakers?

Yes. If you go for an Oppo 105, this will allow you to use it as a pre-amp, giving you more flexibility.

WishTree wrote:

Option 2: Oppo BDP -105

Blu Ray player with Pre-amp - Drives Center and Sub woofer (You need atleast one channel power amp for Center) and the volume is controlled by Oppo. Also Oppo DAC is pretty good and can act a a proper CD player. If there is an active version of your center speaker available then no need for a seperate power amp to drive the center.

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

bigboss wrote:

acalex wrote:

EDIT: To try 1 and 2 I still need to borrow an AVR also..as cannot be tried otherwise, correct?

Yes, that is correct.

Quote:

EDIT2: If I get just a BR palyer (like the Marantz UD5007) I could go from the audio output on the player to one input of my hi-fi amplifier to get the audio in stereo mode from my existing speakers?

Yes. If you go for an Oppo 105, this will allow you to use it as a pre-amp, giving you more flexibility.

Which kind of more flexibility are we talking about? As since what I wanted to to at the beginning is not really possible I am thinking to get anyway a BR player as I do not have any so far and y gf is asking so she could watch her movies...fair enough.

So plan now is to take a nice BR player and start it from there. I guess I will be connecting the audio out of the BR player to my hifi using one of the Jadis input. I can still connect the subwoofer to the Jadis at this point using the pre-out on the Jadis?

So the system will be TV--> BRP --> Hifi --> Front and Sub.

What do you think?

EDIT. Also the difference between the BD-103 and the BD-105 is quite big in terms of price...is that worth the difference for what I need?

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

acalex wrote:

Which kind of more flexibility are we talking about? 

What WishTree has described in option 2. If you decide to go for a blu ray player first while thinking about whether to get an AVR, you'll have an additional option of using the Oppo as a pre amp & either get an active centre speaker or a power amp to power a passive centre speaker. It is slightly more complicated than the straightforward option of an AV receiver though.

Quote:

So plan now is to take a nice BR player and start it from there. I guess I will be connecting the audio out of the BR player to my hifi using one of the Jadis input. I can still connect the subwoofer to the Jadis at this point using the pre-out on the Jadis?

So the system will be TV--> BRP --> Hifi --> Front and Sub.

What do you think?

I don't know about connecting a subwoofer to the Jadis. Maybe someone else can help here.

Quote:

EDIT. Also the difference between the BD-103 and the BD-105 is quite big in terms of price...is that worth the difference for what I need?

You'll need to demo both & see if it's worth the difference. You do have good speakers to bring out a difference I would have thought. Whether it's worth the extra £500 or not, only you can decide.

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

Apparently the two BR players are the same except for this...

Features unique to BDP-105


 

USB Asynchronous DAC – By bypassing the low fidelity, poor quality DAC of traditional computer soundcards, the BDP-105 turn any computer into a high performing multi-media source by converting digital audio to analog through the ESS Sabre32 Reference DAC. If your computer can play it, the BDP-105 can convert it to analog.Coaxial/Optic Inputs – For additional convenience and flexibility, the BDP-105 can convert digital signals from cable and satellite boxes, televisions, video-game consoles and other digital transports with coaxial and optical digital outputs to analog.Headphone Amplifier – For a more intimate listening experience, a pair of headphones can be connected directly to the BDP-105’s built-in headphone amplifiers. The headphone amplifier is connected directly to the ESS Sabre32 Reference DAC and offers a unique performance advantage over standalone headphone amplifiers.Rigid Chassis Construction - Built around a steel chassis, aluminum faceplate, and center-mounted disc loader, the BDP-105 is designed to impress as well as to provide a stable base for the highest quality reproduction of your favorite media.Fanless Architecture – The BDP-105 is passively cooled, allowing it to run both cool and quiet without the need for internal or external fans.SABRE32 Reference Audio DAC - The DAC is one of the most important components for digital audio playback. The SABRE32 Reference ES9018 from ESS Technology is the world’s best performing 32-bit audio DAC solution targeted for high-end consumer applications and professional studio equipment. With the ESS patented 32-bit Hyperstream™ DAC architecture and Time Domain Jitter Eliminator, the SABRE32 Reference DAC delivers an unprecedented DNR (Dynamic Range) of up to 135dB and THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion plus Noise) of -120dB, the industry’s highest performance level that will satisfy even the most demanding audio enthusiast. The BDP-105 uses two ES9018 DAC chips - one for the 7.1-channel output, and another for the dedicated stereo output. To learn more about the technologies behind the exceptional performance of the SABRE DAC, please read the SABRE Technical White Paper.Toroidal Power Supply - A toroidal power transformer offers superior power efficiency and much lower exterior magnetic fields over traditional laminated steel core transformers. The BDP-105's toroidal linear power supply provides a very clean and robust power source to the critical audio components.Dedicated Stereo Output with XLR Balanced Connectors - The BDP-105 features a dedicated 2-channel analog output with specially optimized ES9018 DAC and output driving stages. The stereo output offers both XLR balanced and RCA single-ended connectors. The balanced output features a true differential signal path all the way from the DAC to the 3-pin XLR connector. By transmitting a pair of differential signals, the balanced output provides better common-mode noise rejection and improves signal quality.

 

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RE: A/V Receiver and blue ray player integrated

Yes, the main difference between the 103 & 105 is the  2 ESS Sabre32 DACs employed in the 105. Video wise, they're exactly the same.

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