The cable debate (Oh NO!!) SORRY

And this month - USB cables making significant differences to sound.

I give up.

Cheers

Never bite the hand that feeds you, rule number one for survival.

Sadly it'll never happen Rob.

You've taken your first step, into a larger world

Ah - Dad-dad-dad

Pass the Guiness

I popped into my local Hi-Fi store and got chatting with the Sales guy.  I have used a good quality gauge OFC speaker cable for many years, soldered banana plugs at each end of kit and wondered if there is any way to improve the sound by swapping the cables out.  The Sales guy set up in store a £6/m cables and £25/m cables and we began listening to the same track on each cable.  We performed this test six times.  Being honest,  I could hear no difference at all.  The Sales guy said to me 'it felt more involving,  not so far back'??? with the more expensive cable .  Each to there own but I believe my ears not cost/ product manufacturer.  The Sales guy then made an offer,  take the cables home and give them a try. OooooK then

At home I set the £25/m cables up alongside my existing cables.  I have tested and tested and I can hear no difference between either cable.  For me I do not need to spend money as I have now put my mind to rest.  The rule as said by many before me, use a good guage OFC speaker cable and you will be hard pushed to improve on the sound.

However,  I would like to say it is down to each person to decide what they believe.  If you are sure its an improvement and you are happy to invest the money then you have the right to do so and don't let anyone tell you any different.

I would like to point out a couple of things said by the Sales guy that rang a few alarm bells for me.  He advised 'this cable has a screen'.  I asked 'do you earth it at one end',  'No' was the reply?  'Make sure you point the cable the correct way from amp to speakers' These cables are run in so they are ready to use

I am sure you would be better off investing the money on upgrading the crossover capacitors, speaker drivers and internal wiring in your existing loudspeakers to gain a proper improvement in sound. 

Have fun and enjoy This debate will go on

Buy new speakers you mean?

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf

Changing the enclosures would have an effect, too, so don't forget that..

The purpose of spending money on your loudspeaker cables is to improve on your existing loudspeaker sound?  So buying new speakers is not what you were intending to do in the first place. 

The test I made was with £25/m cable.  I would have had to spend approx £150- 170 on the cable to meet my room requirements.  £150- 170 will not buy me anywhere near the kind of speakers I would need to improve on my current loudspeakers.  So rather than buy cable that to be honest technically would not make a difference,  changing some or all of the internal components of your current loudspeakers would ensure the money was better spent.  However,  upgrading the CD player/  external DAC would also prove more fruitful.  Hardware and the internal components are the reason a system will sound the way it does.  There is also a point where you do need to spend some cash to have good quality speaker cable without busting the bank i.e. a good guage OFC speaker cable.

However, large manufacturers buy components in bulk.  The speakers are built down to a price so something has to give in the build quality.  Take a look inside so called high end loudspeakers and you might be surprised at the components fitted in both crossover and driver quailty.  As long as the cabinet is constructed well,  damped and tuned properly improving the drivers, crossover components and internal wiring will bring the best improvement to sound quality v spending hundreds or even thousands on speaker cable. 

I would happily challenge WHF to do a blind listening test.  I would love to say I was wrong and speaker cables from various manufacturers makes a world of difference,  hearing both soundstage,  bass control and detail differences etc.. between cables.

Cheers

It amazes me people dont hear differences between cables - it really does.  Price irrelevant.

I have never once changed out a cable and not heard a difference and I have done a fair amout of changing.

I have also gone to other rooms, with other systems and made changes where I have nothing to do with the cables and always heard a difference.

I wonder if those people who dont hear a difference - hear a difference if they change the links in the back of the speaker to actual cable?

I also wonder how loud they listen and if that has anything to do with it - just curious.

I also completely disgagree that a good gauge of copper is needed as well - that is not true at all, although I did think that until a couple of weeks ago

idc is a regular member here who even made cables. He was initially a firm believer that cables make a difference. He often talks about a "sweet spot" in cables & says that if you match the loudness on changing a cable, there shouldn't be any difference.

Check his blog:

http://idc1966.blogspot.co.uk/

Check these 2 contrasting posts of his:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/cabling-the-truth-will-out#comment-1...

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/how-many-do-you-believe-make-a...

He challenged his own beliefs & came up with different conclusions.

with a digital display you always match the volume  i.e. I set to 69 or 70 on my new processor

It was -20 to -25db on my receiver before it so the volume level should always be the same in this instance so testing should be fair on that account

My uncle has been buying diifferent hifi bits for years, he admits he is half deaf and yet still keeps changing speakers and components every now and then, I am sure for the change and the excitement of getting something new and hearing it for the first time - we all know that feeling. 

He says he cant hear the difference between certain things - such as 128kbs mp3, 320kbs mp3 and a full WAV.

He listens to a lot of music compressed hard and put on memory sticks as he says he cant hear the difference, but he plays only ever at low volumes that I have heard anyways and I wonder if that is why.

Give into to the darkside.

Try using blind tests when comparing digital cables to see if you can hear any difference between them when you don't know which one you listening to.

It amazes me people dont hear differences between cables - it really does.  Price irrelevant.

I could Visa V you on that one!  Blind listen test and pick a winner.  That is the test I made,  see below on how I tested.  I am talking about speaker cable only!

I have never once changed out a cable and not heard a difference and I have done a fair amout of changing.

The test I made was on speaker cable.  Speaker cable was all I was testing.

I have also gone to other rooms, with other systems and made changes where I have nothing to do with the cables and always heard a difference.

The room is one of the main factors in how the system will sound i.e.  solid floor v raised floor v hardfloor,  sofa's,  curtains etc....  The same system can sound very different in a different room enviroment.

I wonder if those people who dont hear a difference - hear a difference if they change the links in the back of the speaker to actual cable?

I do not believe in Bi-wiring (I think that is what you are talking about when you say the links in the back),  hence the speakers I have (not going to mention any name/ product as that will dictate another view) only have a + and -.  I have tested Bi-wiring with a friends very nice quailty transmission line speakers (blind test) and again we could hear no difference.  Bi-amping with DSP,  yes a difference.  Each driver of the speaker getting the exact frequency range/ amplified of low,  mid and high to each driver in the loudspeaker now that makes technical sense and audible difference.  Another friend of mine has this DSP/ Triple amp set up per channel three way loudspeaker.  We between us have listened for many hours the different set ups and can see the true gain v no gain in system changes you can apply.

 I also wonder how loud they listen and if that has anything to do with it - just curious.

I listen at a realistic level to give the feel of the music but as not to damage my ears   When I tested I had each set of speaker cables wired up to my amp on the A and B side speaker selector switch, played the same track (CD) at the same volume (did not move the level),  simply swapped the speaker cables (A v B switch,  swapped bananas).  I played the track over and over,  no difference in my case.  Hope that helps with your curiosity

I also completely disgagree that a good gauge of copper is needed as well - that is not true at all, although I did think that until a couple of weeks ago

A good guage OFC copper speaker cable I stand by. I would be very concerned with any good quality OFC speaker cable having a major difference over such a short run in most peoples enviroment i.e..  3-6m  per channel side. If you measure the loop impedence of different speaker cables over a run of 3- 6m I would be concerned if any one cable showed alarmingly high resistance, unless it was faulty However,  anyone is free to choose the cable they want either quality/  cost/  brand etc,  if they feel its worth the investment then please go-ahead.

A blind listening test not knowing what speaker cable is in use at that time.  Pick a winner!  If you pick the costly cable spend the money,  if you don't as in my case no winner at all,  no need to spend your money. Just use your ears then decide (you could also apply some technical common sense if you understand electronics).