That was also the only side that provided any solid facts (that benefit fraud accounts for less than 0.5% of the total welfare budget), rather than throwing around highly emotive comments based on newspaper headlines. The side doing that also never attempted to counter any of the arguments put forward by the other side but you could lay that at both sides really.
I don't recall anyone mentioning benefit fraud. I think the subject was the overly generous nature of the welfare system overall, for those claiming legally.
As for "countering arguments" put forward by "the other side", I also don't recall anyone from that side putting up any cogent arguments; I believe the standard of comment never rose above the usual "evil Dail Mail" rants so beloved of the Guardianistas when they have no argument to put forward.
Actually I did offer evidence to which you didn't reply. As it happens I don't think Daily Mail readers are evil but a newspaper which is registered in a tax haven (as indeed is the Guardian) is not well-placed to preach about the 'something for nothing' culture. But to state my position unequivocally - I don't approve of people who take benefits without any intention of working but the evidence suggests that these are such a small number that 'cracking down' on them would not be worth the effort and cost involved but would also risk snaring some who are legitimately entitled to benefits. Living in a free society entails occasionally putting up with behaviour which only a police state might effectively stop and even police states are not immune to corruption.
4.15, according to the rag that was the first entry when I googled my question. I can go for a shower now then.
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Ah. Nice to see you back on the Mod team.
Edited to reflect that I think what I said is actually untrue.
Edit to my edit - I tried to keep what I said in, but with the line through it. Computer siad no, so I just deleted the passage. I could have doen it better perhaps, but there you go.
Ah. There was no insult, and that comment would have passed easily at one time, though more easily when written by some than others. Speaking of which, nice to see you back on the Mod team.
No change there then.
Sad to see you plumbing the depths once more by decending into personal insults, rather than putting forward a rational argument to support your beliefs. Again. I would be more than happy to address any areas of fact or even opinion that you would care to advance, but so far I have seen none.
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- I don't approve of people who take benefits without any intention of working but the evidence suggests that these are such a small number.
Just my experiance.
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I don't approve of people who take benefits without any intention of working but the evidence suggests that these are such a small number.
Well all i can say is that that evidance is wrong.I work in social housing,and work in those properties on a daily basis.The vast majority of the tenents are not working,are fit to work,but not wanting too.Time and again i hear complaints from mrs smith(example)about the guy down the road,living on DLA who's supposed to have a bad back but regulary takes his dog on long walks...and mows his grass!
Yes but you are not allowed to say things like that; you will be found guilty of demonising these vulnerable members of society.........
The trouble is,as i have said before,certain members of this society need to take responsability for themselves and their own lives.You would not believe the amount of assistance these'vulnerable' people recieve when different agencies get involved.It realy is like the parent spoiling the child by throwing presents at them every time they play-up. It doesnt get at the root of the problem...a lack of personal direction,focus and responsability for their own family.For me this is were the big spend should be,help these people basicaly 'get a life',a sense of self-worth etc....they are not victims of this upperclass divide i keep reading,they are victims of lack of motivation,education and the liily livered do-gooders
I'm not sure what point you're making. There are people who abuse the system and in your work you no doubt come across them. But the vast majority in receipt of benefits are in work (getting tax credits and/or housing benefit) or are pensioners (47% of the welfare budget). JSA accounts for around 5% of the welfare budget and many are unemployed and cannot find work. Paid employment involving dog-walking and grass mowing is scarce and in any case, you don't have to be confined to bed to unfit for work. Reducing welfare across the board will of course hit benefit cheats but at the cost of penalising legitimate claimants. Pursuing the cheats would require more spending and I've yet to see an analysis which shows that this would be cost effective. If it were I would support it. But I suspect the government is more concerned about diverting attention from their current economic failings
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The coalition are trying to encourage people to work for their living!
If the system wasn't abused dont you think that more funds would be available to support working families...aswell as pensioners...?
It is so easy for people to right long posts and letters about how shamefull the benefit cuts are...the morality of it all
The people who deal with benefits know who are abusing it..their hands are tied.the trick is to get them to stop claiming it in the first place.
What is shamefull,in my opinion,is that people expect to be given,they expect to live on benefits without contributing nothing to society.Ever watched things like motorway cops...?You see the young lads joyriding...growng weed and dealing from home(social housing)these will be you job seekers.
I spoke to a 22yrd old single guy last week who said he couldn't find work...i suggested that he could,in order for his cv to stand out,do some voluntree work...even an hour a day....would show a new employeer that he was not just one of the 'hoody brigade'.the look on his face said everything,as he cracked his third can of beer...while i was grafting in his kitchen
No one seems to be stopping you - who are these judges whose wrath you fear? And when evidence however anecdotal is produced which contradicts my views, I re-examine and sometimes modify them - what do you do?
when evidence however anecdotal is produced which contradicts my views, I re-examine and sometimes modify them - what do you do?
I wouldn't know, it's never happened.
I don't disagree with a great deal of what you write and having worked in Social Services know that getting people off benefits can be a thankless task. But keeping a sense of proportion was always the most difficult part of my job - coming up against the worst on a daily basis tended to obscure the fact most recipients of welfare are ordinary people who are as enraged by failings in the system as any one else. However the cost of dealing with it and the policing involved would be high, a price worth paying if it allayed fears about widespread cheating. Dealing with the issues you describe though and on the scale that requires wouid demand a new thread, perhaps not in WHF.
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